Struggling with how to approach this right....

stanley_jeffries · Feb 21, 2012

Just another thought...

Hi edjixxx,
So hereâ€™s another book â€“ this time one you should give to your wife.
â€œWhat Shamu Taught Me About Life, Love, and Marriage: Lessons for People from Animals and Their Trainersâ€

http://www.amazon.com/What-Shamu-Ta...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329855317&sr=1-1

In this book the author describes how professional animal training techniques can be used on husbands.

When this book was published a whole bunch of men were apparently outraged that this woman would dare to compare them to animals. But if you think about it, this is a male submissive's wet dream!

Imagine being â€œtrainedâ€ by your wife :desire:

The key thing is that by using this book as your mechanism for communication about your desires, you are answering the question in her mind â€œwhatâ€™s in it for me?â€.

Cheers,
Stanley

stanley_jeffries · Feb 21, 2012

One last thought...

Hi edjixxx,
My final suggestion (for the moment).

Youâ€™ve clearly been through a lot recently. Opening up to your wife, going through counselling sessions etc. OK, thatâ€™s all great, and I hope itâ€™s helping.

So now - when do you get to have some fun? Ask your wife the same question.

You are submissive and bisexual.
She is also bisexual. It sounds like either she isnâ€™t naturally dominant, or she simply does not know how to deal with a dominant situation.
But you both have fantasies.
Youâ€™ve talked about them, which is great.
Youâ€™ve tried to act them out (on your side), but it sounds like your wife didnâ€™t have her heart in it.

There could be several reasons why this was. For example: all this counselling stuff is emotionally wearing. Why not try to make things fun?

To do that Iâ€™m going to suggest a form of FemDom that take almost no work from her. Chastity play.

Itâ€™s a simple enough idea.

She locks you in chastity.

She keeps you that way for a few days, perhaps requiring you to â€œservice herâ€ orally like a good little slave. You would still be locked away, of course. Her pleasure is all that matters now.

When you have some time alone (you mentioned you have three kids â€“ maybe they can stay with grandparents one weekend?) why not suggest she brings her girlfriend to stay? You mentioned she is bisexual, but you donâ€™t say if she has an active relationship going on.

If she agrees, perhaps you would be allowed to be their â€œmaidâ€ for the weekend, still locked safely in chastity, of course. You could be a better maid by:

Learning how to give a really good massage. Perhaps she'll allow you to massage her girlfriend too? Foot massages are particularly humiliating. If her girlfriend is reluctant to let you massage her body it's a slam dunk that she'll let you massage her feet.
I'm sure all of your wife's, and her girlfriend's shoes need cleaning.
They will need a designated driver to take them to a bar, or a club on the Saturday night.
Learning how to give a professional manicure or pedicure.
Of course you will do all the cooking and cleaning while they relax together.
Perhaps your wife's girlfriend has a car? I'm sure a full hand wash, wax and valet would be appropriate.
The list goes on...and on...and on.

I suspect youâ€™ll be getting pretty desperate by now. Notice that your wife hasnâ€™t had to do a thing to â€œhurtâ€ you, and yet I would think a damn good beating would be less painful than what you are now enduring.

The only real effort your wife has to make is to occasionally remind you that she has total control over your sexual pleasure. Who knows â€“ maybe her girlfriend would get a kick out of punishing you physically. Wouldnâ€™t that be fun?

The reason I suggest this scenario is that there is little or no real effort required by your wife. She would be your key holder, of course. And she would need to be aware of what teasing is about.

If she enjoys the weekend with her girlfriend then perhaps she will (eventually) reward you by allowing you to masturbate in front of her. Of course she would then lock you right back into chastity until you earn another release.

Here are links to a couple of my male chastity stories on Orgasm Denial. It might give you some ideas.

And remember - life is supposed to be fun. If it isn't, what's the point?

Cheers,
Stanley

A one-off short story. http://www.orgasmdenial.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6683&highlight=spudmachine

Another short one. This one has lesbian cuckolding and some â€œsupervised masturbationâ€, so it might be a good example for your wife.

http://www.orgasmdenial.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6060&highlight=spudmachine

edjixxx · Feb 22, 2012

Stanley, excellent ideas! We have talked about that before, actually, chastity was one of her ideas. As far as relationships, we are with each other only. As we were talking today, she said she really enjoys dominating me, but she feels women have a specific role, and men have a specific role. Her dominating conflicts with those values, but she enjoys it though. I'm trying to get her to join and post here, not sure she will though.

We are taking a lot of the suggestions, and they are working out very well so far. I am, and will post problems we run into to learn about them and learn more and more. While I've thought about this for years, we are beginners at this, and searching out any and all help. While I'm kind of posting for my wife too, I hope she'll join soon and start posting in her own words.

sebastian · Feb 22, 2012

I'm glad things are working for you, Edji. What does your wife feel is the role of women?

edjixxx · Feb 22, 2012

I think I misunderstood the conversation her and I had. Talking to her now, I think she was referring to different values. It seems she was referring to the Baptist values she was brought up with. I was brought up with these same sort of values, but I bucked against them more. Her childhood was one that if she stepped out of what was accepted, she faced harsh consequences, whereas with my childhood, I didn't care. Still trying to get her to join.....

stanley_jeffries · Feb 22, 2012

Sounds promising...but take things slowly

Hi edjixxx,
OK, it sounds like things are improving.

Now...take things slowly. Remember that even if your wife is showing more interest, it's very unlikely that she is as intrinsicly enthusiastic about this as you are.

Imagine two people who meet each other, and find that they are into the same hobby. Let's say it's cookery. You'd think this is very promising, because they share an interest.

But John wants to take his cookery to competition, or cordon bleu standards. He lives and breathes cookery...watches every cookery show and buys every cookery book.

Jane knows what she likes when it comes to eating food, but she just wants to be able to make a nice meal that will impress friends that they invite to dinner.

Unless they understand that they have different levels of enthusiasm in cookery, their "shared interest" could actuallly become the reason they start to dislike each other.

As you can imagine - it's all about compromise, and making a genuine effort to understand how the other person feels (ie. Relationship 101).

You may feel that so far you have been the one to compromise in terms of the discussions on a BDSM lifestyle. Whether this is true or not, you need to understand that your wife will not view it this way. You cannot "bank" the degree of compromise you've shown so far and now expect her to do all the compromising. As you start to communicate more openly about your real feelings, you need to start with a "clean sheet", and an open mind.

So far I have to say you are amazingly lucky. Your wife seems to show a genuine interest in your fetish - which is more than 90% of submissives in existing relationships can hope for.

But from what you have written it's all been about you so far. There are two people in the relationship.

Here's a challenge. Over the next few days try to get your wife to discuss a few different fantasies of her own. They may have nothing to do with BDSM - in fact they most likely will not.

You may find them trivial. But do not mock them. Take a genuine interest in them - in the same way that you would want her to take an interest in your fantasies. If you can, try to imagine how helping her fulfil her fantasies can actually be part of being her slave

But don't push it too hard. Don't bug her every ten minutes with another idea about one of her fantasies. Maybe just a quiet talk when you're in bed together at night. No more than a couple of minutes, unless she initiates the conversation.

One last tip. Keep religion out of it. Most relgions try to persuade us that it's OK that this world sucks because "we'll have a great time in the afterlife as long as we follow the rules on Earth."

This world does not have to suck. And nobody has to get hurt in the process! We are living in an era where win-win is possible.

You do not have to be a "bad person" to be naughty :devil:.

Cheers,
Stanley

edjixxx · Feb 22, 2012

Stanley, excellently put. I do have a tendency to push harder than I should, and my wife is more sensitive to me being pushy towards her as opposed to others pushing her. Yes, I am extremely lucky, in more ways than one to have her, although, I do sometimes let that move to second place in favor of my desires. I came into this after I laid everything out to her, and was afraid of screwing it up, (which I seem to have an unparalleled ability to do.) Which may account for it seeming to be about me only. In fact, what she's feeling and going through is just as important, if not more so, than what I am. She hasn't joined yet, but She follows this thread.

When you say about a clean start, we ironically were just discussing it yesterday. We've decided, I think, that we need to put everything we've done to each other, and everything others have done to us behind us, and focus more on what we want, and are interested in. That's something neither one of us
ever had, and causes problems, in every day life in general. We've been pretty much told all our lives what's good, bad, acceptable, not acceptable, etc., and we've never been able to assert our ideas, beliefs, etc. Like my wife so eloquently put it yesterday, when I told her I thought she would've ran if I
told her everything up front, she told me it should've been her choice, not mine.

I have to agree with you on compromising, although I really don't want to admit it at times. I can't speak specifically for my wife, but I get the impression that she likes dominating as much as I like being submissive. I think that right now, processing everything I told her is where she is at, developing her mindset on it. I'm just scared to death that I'll do or say something that'll turn her against what I'm into, or worse, turn her against me, and she'll leave. That is my worst fear about the whole thing, and always has me pondering whether or not I should have opened my mouth about it in the first place.

sebastian · Feb 22, 2012

edjixxx said:
We've decided, I think, that we need to put everything we've done to each other, and everything others have done to us behind us, and focus more on what we want, and are interested in. That's something neither one of us
ever had, and causes problems, in every day life in general. We've been pretty much told all our lives what's good, bad, acceptable, not acceptable, etc., and we've never been able to assert our ideas, beliefs, etc. Like my wife so eloquently put it yesterday, when I told her I thought she would've ran if I
told her everything up front, she told me it should've been her choice, not mine.

Learning to live according to your own genuine desires and not the desires of those around you (parents, society, etc) is very challenging, but immensely rewarding. It's also quite scary at times, because it puts you in uncharted territory.

edjixxx said:
I have to agree with you on compromising, although I really don't want to admit it at times. I can't speak specifically for my wife, but I get the impression that she likes dominating as much as I like being submissive. I think that right now, processing everything I told her is where she is at, developing her mindset on it. I'm just scared to death that I'll do or say something that'll turn her against what I'm into, or worse, turn her against me, and she'll leave. That is my worst fear about the whole thing, and always has me pondering whether or not I should have opened my mouth about it in the first place.

Pursuing your dreams sometimes leads to disaster, but sometimes it leads to your dreams. As Neil Gaiman once wrote "It is sometimes a mistake to climb; it is always a mistake not even to try."

edjixxx · Feb 23, 2012

Okaaaay....let me see if I can explain this. After a long conversation tonight, I'm all screwed up. On one hand, my wife likes dominating. On the other, when I asked her why she does it, her response is for our marriage. She wants me to be happy, satisfied sexually. She says BDSM is 'my baby', and not her fantasy. I'm jumping around here, so may not be in any order. Sooo, this presents some rather negative emotions.

I may sound selfish as hell here. I love the fact she loves it. I hate it she said tit's my baby, [not hers], and not her fantasy. I hate it she said she's doing it for our marriage. I don't expect it to be her fantasy. To me, a fantasy is a dream, and something you can really get into, sexually or otherwise. I want to want to domme because she wants to, not out of obligation to our marriage. While I'm sure she wants to, I want 'because she wants to' to be her first answer. Otherwise, it feels like she's doing it out of obligation, and so I won't go somewhere else. It should be noted that she's tearfully offered to give up our monogamous relationship for my sexual satisfaction. That will never happen. Although, the thought of watching her with her fantasy would be pretty hot. Anyway, I feel like when she says she does it for our marriage, she's doing out of obligation, not because she wants to, which kills it for me. I'll never go anywhere else for it, her and our family mean everything to me. She feels I'm screwed up for feeling like I do about the obligatory dominating. She says it's my baby, not hers, not her fantasy. I want it to be both of us, not my baby. She says she means that she wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for me, that's what she means by my baby. Somehow I don't think so, combined with the other comments. It makes me feel like I'm the one who wants it, not her, she's doing it out of obligation to me because we're married, and she doesn't want me to go anywhere else for it. That's not what I want. I want her to do it because she wants to do it, for it to be our thing, not my baby, and know I'm not going to go anywhere else. I love her and our family too friggin much. I would, and will give up everything so she's happy.

All of this combined has me feeling vulnerable, because she's the first, and most likely only person to know everything about me, nervous, scared, and afraid she's going to leave. So right about now, I'm ready to call the whole thing a massive mistake, put everything back into that cool little proverbial bottle, cork it, and bury under whatever proverbial mixture, and drop it from my life once again.

***EDIT***
Yes, it does matter her reasoning for why she does it. As much as she disagrees with me about it.

stanley_jeffries · Feb 23, 2012

Hi edjixxx,
I'm sorry to hear that, man. I know the kind of bitter disappointment you must be feeling. But please try not to let it get to you. You've got to roll with the punch, and absoutely not let it make you bitter.

Remember all the stuff I said in earlier posts? About different levels of enthusiasm between you? About trying to explore your wife's fantasies too?

In particular remember the quote I cut and pasted from Gottman's book? You mentioned your wife is reading the thread - did she read that quote? To me this is pretty much the best thing I've read in any relationship book.

I'm afraid that you've built up a level of expectation about how your wife is feeling about your fantasies. So you need to ease off and take it slowly.

Equally I feel your wife needs to read that quote - or even better read the whole book, and think about how sharing your fantasy in her heart will make you happy.

And because marriage is about give and take, you need to be prepared to share fantasies of hers so that neither of you feels they are doing all the work.

Take baby steps, please. And try to keep your own level of expectation under control. That's the key to not spiralling into the blues.

Cheers,
Stanley

Struggling with how to approach this right....

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