Struggling with how to approach this right....

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by edjixxx, Feb 18, 2012.

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  1. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

    When I was 12, I realized I identified with the alternative lifestyle culture. Being brought up in an extremely conservative!traditional household, I did the healthy thing, and stuffed it all in the proverbial box, and never let it out again. I guess somewhere between then and now, I became the exact opposite of who I really am, as a way to deal with it. Who I really am is submissive, bisexual, more feminine qualities.

    Fast forward 17 years, and I have a gorgeous wife, with 3 beautiful kids. My wife was brought up in a similar environment, with much more religion crammed down her throat. Sex has always been an issue, as hiding everything only works until you miss something. So, she always knew I was hiding something, she just didn't know what. After 7.5 years together, I finally told her everything about me. That I am really the exact opposite of who I portray. After we worked through that, and discuss that she is bisexual also, it came time to talk about bdsm. I told her how I really feel, that I'm more inclined for a more permanent, lifestyle, type situation, giving up all control. She is very interested in this. Over the last 17 years though, I've conjured up a whole lot of baggage, I guess, about it. Everything from what I envision happening, emotions, good and bad, scenarios, etc... I feel like I have to tell her all of these thoughts, and it makes her feel very pressured. It also makes her think I'm trying to control it, when I really don't. I need to somehow drop all that and move forward. I know we'll both need support from each other, and not sure what to do there either. We've set up a 2 week window to try stuff out, and feel each other out, before we go into the
    complete lifestyle.

    I guess I'm asking for advice on what to expect, how to deal with problems up to this point, how to support each other correctly doing this, and, well, anything I've forgot. We both really want this, and don't want to screw it up. I hope someone can help me out here. Frigging struggling to make it all perfect, for some reason. Thanks for reading this!!!
    I

    guess one of the biggest problems I have is I always seem to want to make suggestions about what i want done, based on what I have dreamed about. Yet at the same time, I don't want to have any power, rights, opinion, etc, and I don't know how to deal with that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
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  2. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Good for you that you've been able to open up to your wife, and congratulations that she's interested in kink too! Communication is really important for successful BDSM.

    But my advice is to slow down. If I understand you, you and she have agreed to explore BDSM, but haven't done so yet. And you'd like to start with 24/7 slavery, even though you haven't really done any BDSM yet. Even if total slavery is your fantasy, and one she's at least willing to try accommodating, 24/7 is not the place to start. That's like trying to learn to swim by jumping off the diving board into the deep end of the pool. You've got to learn to dog-paddle before you can high dive.

    My advice is to treat 24/7 slavery as a goal that you and she are working toward. You need to learn some of the basics of being submissive, which isn't quite as easy as you may think, and she needs to learn both the skills of being dominant and the confidence to do it. This takes time and practice. Trying to go straight to slavery is likely to produce a lot of frustration, tension, and confusion.

    So here's what I think you two should do: start out with some bedroom play. Designate an evening when she will be in charge in the bedroom. Before that night, talk about what activities you both want to explore, and agree to do the ones that you both are interested in. If one of you want something that the other one is unsure about, agree to take that off the table for the evening, but to consider exploring it later. What you don't want to happen is for her to demand something you're not ready for--either you'll refuse, which will confuse the power exchange, or you'll try to do it and potentially freak out in the middle of it, which will upset you both. Then, when the night comes, she gets to be in charge and demand whatever you two have agreed upon, in whatever way she wants it. Once you're done for the night, talk about what worked and what didn't work, and what you'd like to try next time. Gradually explore the fantasies you two have. Doing things this way will give you both time to adjust to your agreed-upon roles and to acquire the basic skills for those roles. If you decide to explore bondage or pain play, get a good book on the subject so you can learn how to do them safely.

    Once you've gotten comfortable with your basic roles, then start exploring slavery, taking the power exchange out of the bedroom. You'll have more of an idea of what's expected of you and how to do it.
     
  3. Andre

    Andre New Member

    I recommend couples counseling. It sounds like your real struggle is ultimately communication. A neutral third party can help with that.
     
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  4. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

    Sabastian, thank you for responding. Yes one of things that is very weird for us is the exchange, and the want for it ro be perfect. While we do have some bdsm experience with each other, not as far as what I've talked to her about. But trying it out here and there is actually showing us areas of different than expected feelings. Thank you for you input. Is there any areas that you can give advice in as far as ways to deal with the inherent problems that will arise? Like, when things go wrong, how to get each other back on track?



    As far as counseling, we have been going for 3 years, which is how we got to the point we are now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  5. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    I'm glad the counseling is helping. Not all therapists are BDSM friendly though. They often decide that the root of the problem is the sub's desire to surrender control. So make sure that your counselor is willing to accept your submissive side as a legitimate, non-pathological part of your personality. An interest in BDSM used to be listed as a form of mental illness, but was delisted some years back, I understand.

    As far as dealing with problems that arise, communication is critical. I assume that you've read the Newcomer's FAQ, and that when you play, you wife is leaving room for aftercare. Aftercare snuggling can be a good time to discuss what worked in a session, what didn't worked and how it could be done better next time (unless you're the sort of sub who needs to be very quiet during aftercare). Also, I assume you've established a safeword or two, so that if problems arise during play, you can stop either briefly or for the night.

    A lot depends on what sort of problems you're running into. For example, if the problem is that your wife lacks the technical skills to do something like bondage or erotic torture, the thing to do is get a book on that subject and read up. And look for a mentor in the BDSM community who can teach those skills. And consider going to a BDSM event where she can take a class in the skill.

    If the problem is more psychological, like she lacks confidence, or you feel guilty about being submissive, then the answer might be more complicated, but communication will help. So what problems are you encountering?
     
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  6. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

    I was told before, if you're screwed up, you'll end up professionally screwed up once you leave a psychologist.....LOL. While it's a joke, it does have an element of truth in there. Like you said sabastian, the BDSM part was viewed, and still is viewed, I believe, in the psychological community, as a pathological problem. Which is one reason it was never spoke about to the psychologist. I never told him any of that. We are discontinuing counseling now, but the psychologist did help. Counseling helped out bring out more of the problems, and I don't know how to describe this, but the problems with us that were causing us not to be able to move forward, I guess. I can't really put it into words, other than we weren't who we truly are with each other, and now we are being who we are with each other, moving past the hurt from around us and each other.

    Actually, when we were engaged last night, it was more an exploratory thing I guess. What happened was when we first started, I realized that I had already started "planning" out what I wanted to happen for the night. Once I was able to get my mind to stop, and let it go, I was able to let go of all of my expectations for the night. I was able to just relax, and let my wife take the lead, and it worked out extremely well, up to the point I still made a comment of what I wanted, which we went for then, but it had already killed the power exchange/moment.

    What we did find, however, is that when I go into it without having a game plan, and do let her take the dominant spot, it goes very well. There's a reason in there, but she feels more secure in it, more turned on, and I get into it more too. We did a lot of stuff last night that I had never thought of, which was a turn on. She has a hard time letting her imagination take the lead at times, and I have the tendency to have to have a map with detailed directions for EVERYTHING in life...

    That said, when we went for the punishment, tied up, spanking/caning/small whip scene, is where it started to fall apart. I had made a comment about wanting to do it, and she obliged, which I think is where we go wrong with the power exchange conflict you had said about. Another problem was for some reason, while we connected in other ideas, i.e., my wife taking the lead, when it came to this scene, the emotional connection wasn't there, which I feel is greatly needed to make it enjoyable. While we tried some things, and somewhat recovered, that part didn't work out well. I don't know where to look at where the problem was there.

    So anyway, we are getting better at the reassurance, and supporting each other, and communicating with each other. We try to discuss it often when we can, not always possible, but when/where we can, which helps out the mood. We are also becoming more open with each other, meaning, instead of holding something back because we feel it may make the other think less of us, we just say it. That's part of our past issues creeping in.

    As far as what problems we are encountering, to summarize, would be that she feels insecure about dominating me in restraints with caning/spanking/whipping. She feels like a bad person for doing it to me. She found something that referred to 'top drop', and she's a perfectionist, and knows how much it means to me also, which stresses her greatly. When I know this, it's like kryponite. She can separate herself mentally from it, and it works for her, but then she has no emotional connection. Again, kryptonite to me. Then with me, when I develop expectations, I tend to make them known, which makes her feel pressured, and that kills it for the night, usually. Things usually don't go well. But like I said, last night we did, and we went for a long time. Before we knew it, 8 hours had past. Which brings us to another problem....That morning after, when you go to bed at 4am-5am, and have family responsibilities that get up about an hour later.......ugh.....


    I read somewhere before that most people who enjoy BDSM come from loving, caring homes, while those who came from troubled home lives tend not to like it. Which, my wife and I both came from troubled homes/families. A lot of the problems come from the residual effects of this, I think. What my wife said was sitting down and saying to each other, 'our past is our past, what we did to each other, what our families have done to us, is in the past, so we're going to leave it there, and move forward.' She's onto to something there. Our pasts, and events in our pasts come up, which causes all those old feelings to come into play, and that's never good. So if we can deal with it, leave it in the past somehow, come up with a way to deal with the feelings from the past now, and drop them, we both agree that we think it'd make BDSM into a positive light, and extremely more enjoyable. Sorry, I start rambling sometimes when I get on a laptop....my phone usually slows me down more, so I type less.
     
  7. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Edji, there's a lot there, so I'm just going to make a few comments on what stepped out at me in your post.

    1) Many doms and subs come from abusive homes. For them, voluntary submission becomes a way to confront the trauma of their earlier abuse. Being spanked by your wife, for example, may help you make sense of the pain of being spanked by someone who should have loved you but didn't. And the pain may offer a catharsis, a chance to cry when you couldn't cry before. Lots of people on this forum come from abusive backgrounds, so don't let that lead you think that you can't do BDSM. But it does mean that BDSM may have a few minefields for you. Don't be shocked if you suddenly find your play hitting too close to home or leading you to cry or something like that. If that happens, your wife should stop the play, untie you, and just comfort you.

    2) The toughest part of being a dom is really developing one's sense of confidence and accepting that you enjoy inflicting erotic pain. We are taught not to hurt the people we love, so doing it with your spouse can create a strong sense of guilt. What your wife needs to do is learn to make a distinction between bad hurting and good hurting. In normal circumstances, beating a loved one is a sign of angry, cruelty, and so on. But in this context, with you voluntarily submitting to being flogged or whatever, hitting you is a sign of love; she is giving you pleasure. There are many contexts in which inflicting pain on someone is socially acceptable--in contact sports, in surgery, etc. So if she can learn to think about this as good hurting, hurting in an acceptable fashion, it will be easier.

    Confidence is tricker to develop, but you can help her with that. She needs to learn that, within whatever limits you've chosen to set, she gets to do as she pleases. A domme needs to embrace the idea that her pleasure is the whole point of play, for both her and her sub. Yes, you're enjoying it, but your pleasure is incidental to hers. Resisting her will hamper her confidence, so learn to accept whatever she wants to do, even if it doesn't arouse you. And play into it, to show her she's doing it right. For example, if you like being spanked, when she's spanking you tell her it's turning you on, or moan a little, or writhe, or do whatever else says she's pushing your button. Don't fake it when you don't like it, but give her signs to let her know she's doing it right. Afterwards, tell her what you liked and offer her one (and only one) suggestion about how it could be better. Do NOT offer suggestions during play, only afterward.

    3) A sub should not be planning out a play session, unless told to do so by his domme. That's your wife's prerogative and duty, not yours, and you've seen what happens when you step on her toes in this area, so learn to set down your expectations and focus on meeting her needs instead of your own. The paradox of being a sub is that you receive by giving, but not by taking.

    Perhaps she needs to find a punishment to use whenever you try to control the scene.

    4) If you're having trouble building the emotional connection, perhaps you're approaching your scene with the wrong mood. BDSM can be a very loving, playful activity; it doesn't have to be all whips and chains and black leather. For example, she could be your momma and you're the naughty boy who needs loving discipline to learn his lesson. And once she's spanked you, she comforts you and makes you feel better. If a scene like that feels more loving, do it that way. Or she could talk about how proud she is that you're taking her spanking without crying or whatever.

    5) If she's a perfectionist, she's gonna want to be able to do everything right away, and that's almost impossible. Being a really good domme takes a lot of skill and practice--skill with ropes, skill with toys like floggers, skill with talking the right way and dressing the right way and structuring the scene and learning what makes a sub tick and so on. There's almost no way she can master it all right away. So help her understand that it's ok to be just starting out and learning the ropes, as the joke goes. She should focus on learning one or two things at a time, and just accept that she won't be amazing with everything at the start. I've been doing this actively for about 2 1/2 years, but there is still a ton I need to learn about ropework, and I'm skill just learning flogging, and I've never done wax and barely done electro and so on. It's important for a domme not to try to do it all right away, because that's how accidents and injuries happen. Before she tries a new form of play, like wax, she needs to read up on what's safe and what's not and what equipment to use and so on. It's ok for her to be a beginner.
     
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  8. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

    I must say, when I've researched it before, I read that it was usually people who came from stable, non-abusive families who enjoyed BDSM. So I always thought that I was one of the weird ones. That and I don't fit into any social norm, which has it's good and bad points. Thank you for enlightening that point.

    We will explore your suggestions and explore the next set of problems. I thank you very much for mentoring us, and we'll continue with this. This is really a new to me, meaning exploring this, and having knowledgeable support who doesn't think I'm crazy, or a second rate person.
     
  9. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    I'm glad I could help. Perhaps your wife should join Smplace too. She must have her own questions and concerns.

    You're definitely not a weirdo, or crazy, or second-rate. BDSM goes back at least to the 18th century, and certain elements of it go back to the Roman period at least. Some people just need the release from social pressures and rules that it offers us. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as it's always consensual. When I realized I was dominant, it was like the proverbial light bulb coming on. My life made sense in a whole new way--it was like I'd been looking through an unfocused telescope, and suddenly it came into focus and just made sense. It's given me so much clarity. For others, it provides a sense of healing, or a vacation from the demands of the rest of their life, or a physical catharsis. Whatever it gives you, it's right for you. Don't let anyone tell you you're wrong (except for your mistress, if you two get into humiliation; in that case, let her tell you whatever she wants to).
     
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  10. Just a thought...

    Hi edjixxx,
    Sebastian is giving you great advice, and I'm not going to contradict anything. I’ll give my suggestions in separate posts because I think they may be quite long.

    With respect to counselling. Don’t just take one “expert’s†opinion. I recommend you read a couple of interesting books. The first is purely about marriage. I’ll suggest the other in my next post.
    “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Workâ€. By Gottman and Silver. I’m going to cut and paste a whole chunk of it here. The quote below is one reason I’m suggesting this book (BTW – Gottman is supposedly “The country’s foremost relationship expertâ€). And IMHO this book does contain some extremely interesting advice on conflict resolution. Here’s the quote on that I particularly like.
    Cheers,
    Stanley

    http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Princip...5797/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329855088&sr=8-1

    “Your sexual life will be further enhanced if you feel safe enough
    to share your sexual fantasies with each other and even act them out
    together. This is a very delicate area. Although fantasies are the home
    of imagination, variety, and adventure in a marriage, very few
    couples are able to share their fantasies and then find some way of
    honoring them within their sex life. If you are able to share your
    fantasies, the result will be great intimacy, romance, and excitement.
    Try to cultivate the idea that within the boundaries of your
    marriage, all wishes, images, fantasies, and desires are acceptable.
    Nothing is intrinsically bad or disgusting. You can say no to your
    partner's request, but don't disparage it. Expressing a fantasy
    requires a great deal of trust, so take care to be tender when you hear
    of a fantasy your partner has. If it's not one of your own, but it's not a
    turn-off, then agree to it. Don't take it personally if your spouse
    wants you to pretend to be a stranger, a nurse, or a pirate. Just
    consider it play The idea, the desire, the fantasy is usually not
    understood at all by the person expressing it. No one knows why
    particular fantasies are erotic to certain people, they just are.â€
     
  11. Just another thought...

    Hi edjixxx,
    So here’s another book – this time one you should give to your wife.
    “What Shamu Taught Me About Life, Love, and Marriage: Lessons for People from Animals and Their Trainersâ€

    http://www.amazon.com/What-Shamu-Ta...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329855317&sr=1-1

    In this book the author describes how professional animal training techniques can be used on husbands.

    When this book was published a whole bunch of men were apparently outraged that this woman would dare to compare them to animals. But if you think about it, this is a male submissive's wet dream!

    Imagine being “trained†by your wife :desire:

    The key thing is that by using this book as your mechanism for communication about your desires, you are answering the question in her mind “what’s in it for me?â€.


    Cheers,
    Stanley
     
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  12. One last thought...

    Hi edjixxx,
    My final suggestion (for the moment).

    You’ve clearly been through a lot recently. Opening up to your wife, going through counselling sessions etc. OK, that’s all great, and I hope it’s helping.

    So now - when do you get to have some fun? Ask your wife the same question.

    • You are submissive and bisexual.
    • She is also bisexual. It sounds like either she isn’t naturally dominant, or she simply does not know how to deal with a dominant situation.
    • But you both have fantasies.
    • You’ve talked about them, which is great.
    • You’ve tried to act them out (on your side), but it sounds like your wife didn’t have her heart in it.

    There could be several reasons why this was. For example: all this counselling stuff is emotionally wearing. Why not try to make things fun?

    To do that I’m going to suggest a form of FemDom that take almost no work from her. Chastity play.

    It’s a simple enough idea.

    She locks you in chastity.

    She keeps you that way for a few days, perhaps requiring you to “service her†orally like a good little slave. You would still be locked away, of course. Her pleasure is all that matters now.

    When you have some time alone (you mentioned you have three kids – maybe they can stay with grandparents one weekend?) why not suggest she brings her girlfriend to stay? You mentioned she is bisexual, but you don’t say if she has an active relationship going on.

    If she agrees, perhaps you would be allowed to be their “maid†for the weekend, still locked safely in chastity, of course. You could be a better maid by:

    • Learning how to give a really good massage. Perhaps she'll allow you to massage her girlfriend too? Foot massages are particularly humiliating. If her girlfriend is reluctant to let you massage her body it's a slam dunk that she'll let you massage her feet.
    • I'm sure all of your wife's, and her girlfriend's shoes need cleaning.
    • They will need a designated driver to take them to a bar, or a club on the Saturday night.
    • Learning how to give a professional manicure or pedicure.
    • Of course you will do all the cooking and cleaning while they relax together.
    • Perhaps your wife's girlfriend has a car? I'm sure a full hand wash, wax and valet would be appropriate.
    • The list goes on...and on...and on.

    I suspect you’ll be getting pretty desperate by now. Notice that your wife hasn’t had to do a thing to “hurt†you, and yet I would think a damn good beating would be less painful than what you are now enduring.

    The only real effort your wife has to make is to occasionally remind you that she has total control over your sexual pleasure. Who knows – maybe her girlfriend would get a kick out of punishing you physically. Wouldn’t that be fun?

    The reason I suggest this scenario is that there is little or no real effort required by your wife. She would be your key holder, of course. And she would need to be aware of what teasing is about.

    If she enjoys the weekend with her girlfriend then perhaps she will (eventually) reward you by allowing you to masturbate in front of her. Of course she would then lock you right back into chastity until you earn another release.

    Here are links to a couple of my male chastity stories on Orgasm Denial. It might give you some ideas.

    And remember - life is supposed to be fun. If it isn't, what's the point?

    Cheers,
    Stanley

    A one-off short story. http://www.orgasmdenial.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6683&highlight=spudmachine

    Another short one. This one has lesbian cuckolding and some “supervised masturbationâ€, so it might be a good example for your wife.

    http://www.orgasmdenial.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6060&highlight=spudmachine
     
  13. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

    Stanley, excellent ideas! We have talked about that before, actually, chastity was one of her ideas. As far as relationships, we are with each other only. As we were talking today, she said she really enjoys dominating me, but she feels women have a specific role, and men have a specific role. Her dominating conflicts with those values, but she enjoys it though. I'm trying to get her to join and post here, not sure she will though.

    We are taking a lot of the suggestions, and they are working out very well so far. I am, and will post problems we run into to learn about them and learn more and more. While I've thought about this for years, we are beginners at this, and searching out any and all help. While I'm kind of posting for my wife too, I hope she'll join soon and start posting in her own words.
     
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  14. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    I'm glad things are working for you, Edji. What does your wife feel is the role of women?
     
  15. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

    I think I misunderstood the conversation her and I had. Talking to her now, I think she was referring to different values. It seems she was referring to the Baptist values she was brought up with. I was brought up with these same sort of values, but I bucked against them more. Her childhood was one that if she stepped out of what was accepted, she faced harsh consequences, whereas with my childhood, I didn't care. Still trying to get her to join.....
     
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