Is nude pictures essential in D/S Relationships?

[Emma]

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Just because its a m/s relationship doesnt mean he has the right to do what he wants to if you're really that against it. I think in regards to certain things its the exact same as a "normal relationship" and as you already said you wouldnt allow a boyfriend take these pictures. However, if you do wish to continue this then why dont you make a compromise, nude pictures but with no face. This cuts out your fear and still gives him what he wants. But to be completely honest with you i would never stay in a relationship no matter what kind if someone was pushing me that much about something i felt that strongly about.

 

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[GreyMac]

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First of all, Sarah555, I'm not siding against you. However I'd like to see if I can frame this from your dominant's point of view. I'm also not saying he's right or wrong. But he sees this problem in a very different light than you do.

The two of you had your limits talk and you did not mention "No Photos". Yet when he demanded photos you flatly said no and "freaked out and walked out". At that point he felt you had challenged his authority and you were not being submissive.

You question his motives and say that you don't know what he wants the pictures for,

"I'm just trying to figure if this was all part of his dominance play, or is he needing the pictures for "security" reasons against me."

Yet you allow this man to tie you up naked and make you completely helpless and trust him to not harm you and to let you go if you need to get free.

I can tell you why he wants them, men are extremely visual creatures. We need to see it. It's hard for the male mind to visualize things and we like pictures . He wants them so he can think and fantasize about you when you're not around. AND, as a dominant, he wants you to give in on this point so he can have the confidence and control he had before you took it away from him by refusing to do something you had never mentioned was a hard limit. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong but I'd be willing to bet that's how he sees this entire issue.

Now it has become a major issue to the point where he is really only willing to take you back if you give in on the point where you walked out on him. His pride is injured and he feels that you giving in on this point is the only way to get 'justice' in his mind. He is losing interest in further activities. You say you ask him "What's wrong?" but you already know the answer to that question.

The two of you need a long talk about trust. I agree with everyone else here, if it's a hard limit for you then he needs to respect that. There should be no more play until the two of you discuss your trust issues, because this in not really about pictures, it's about trust. Go back and read that sentence quoted above where you mention "security" reasons', again. You don't trust him. Do you hold a sensitive position with government or a financial institution, perhaps?

Is there a workable compromise here? Can he use your camera and leave it at your house? Can you edit the photos so that your face doesn't show and he can have copies of those pics? See if you can work out a compromise that lets you feel you're protected and let's him feel he's in charge again.

 

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[master jey]

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i will agree with grey he has a point

 

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[Zandar]

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Really no need for pictures

Now I can understand GreyMac that there might, without prior setup, have been created a grey (whats in a name?) area. From your (sarah555) posts it is indeed not 100% clear if you two have it absolutely clear this is a hard limit.

If you set "no (nude) pictures" clearly as a hard limit, then we are done discussing: No is no. Maybe have another talk with him if being unclear at the start might have caused this situation, but not give in. Maybe have another talk if this is just his/her way of trying to get what he/she wants anyway. But be ready to walk away and find someone better. You are worth it.
If you have not set this clearly as a hard limit, then there is nothing from stopping YOU to still set it as a hard limit and whatever his/her emotions about this is: If he/she is not willing to respect that, there will also never be trust.

A part of GreyMac posts might put you in doubt, so I simply have to reply to this:

I can tell you why he wants them, men are extremely visual creatures. We need to see it. It's hard for the male mind to visualize things and we like pictures . He wants them so he can think and fantasize about you when you're not around. AND, as a dominant, he wants you to give in on this point so he can have the confidence and control he had before you took it away from him by refusing to do something you had never mentioned was a hard limit.

This simply not true. We (men) do NOT NEED it. I am pretty sure most of us LIKE or WANT it (yes, including me), but we sure do NOT need it.
It might be hard for you to visualize things, but not impossible. With a little practice you get a long way. Sure, a pictures might help a lot, but at the end of the day you are still fantasizing.

Especially in this case: The master seems to have a lot of pictures of previous subs. Let him replace the face in his imagination together with all the other stuff he is changing / adding to the picture in his mind. No big deal. Maybe (yes, only MAYBE) you could consider giving him a picture of you in your swimsuit, so he/she has a face and some 'features' to build his/her fantasy on. But there is absolutely no need.

If a men / master needs a picture to be in control, then be honest about it that you are doing something wrong in the first place. You might as well ask the sub for his/her creditcard or housekeys if you need something materialised to stay in control . As long as your country does not formaly re-introduces slavery and your sub becomes your slave, you will never ever be 100% in control, no mather what you do. Learn to live with that. Fix that last tiny bit in the setup you create with your sub (collar, chains, ritual, a ring, whatever), not with something that is outside hard limits.

Lets not give sarah555 any reason to doubt about. Yes, maybe sarah555 needs to have a good talk and make 100% clear what the hard limit is, but no, there is no need to allow the master to make pictures. Respect eachother and play on.

 

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[Emma]

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I have to disagree with people saying that if it was not discussed as a limit then you can see the dom's point of view. Sarah has said that this her first time engaging in this type of relationship, therefore, how could she know all of her limits starting off. Shes learning new things and im sure there are a lot of things she didnt even consider such as nude pictures.

 

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[Obedient Little Puppy]

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Yes, agreed. It seems pretty clear to me that she has made her feelings about the pictures just as clear to her master.

If her issue with nude pics was just role play, where she would only be pretending to hate it, that would be a different story. But, given that the pair have argued repeatedly over this, it is blindingly obvious that there is a serious lack of respect coming from her master.

I, personally, love posing for my master to take pics of me, from normal pics through to nude and even deeply humiliating ones. But on the odd occasion when I make it clear that I don't want any pics taken, he respects that. His attitude is 'if it's not enjoyable, then we won't do it', and I really like that. Games and practices in BDSM should be a pleasurable experience for a couple to share, and enjoy together.

In fact, I recently did something that has resulted in me becoming extremely self conscious about having any pics taken of myself. I gave my master permission to take a picture of me when we last met, but only on the condition that he didn't show me the picture afterwards. After taking it, he asked me if I was sure I didn't want to see it, I said yes, I was sure, and he didn't force me to look. He has described the pic to me in word form, which was okay, but has promised that I will see the pic only when I ask him to show me

 

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[Martello]

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Also, in a relationship of any kind - when you argue about the same thing like a broken record; that's always the sign of a large problem.

 

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[GreyMac]

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Jeez Zandar, that's one fine hairsplitter you've got there. You took the word 'need' assigned it a great deal more importance than I did then got a hundred word essay out of it. I'm impressed.

My point was simply that men are very visual, and I think anyone who is aware of the billion dollar lingere industry, or the history of visual depictions of the nude female form ranging from cave drawings and carvings to the porn industry that generates trillions of dollars annually around the world and affects almost every culture on the planet would agree with that. 'Need', here was just used as a synonym for desire or want. I'd also be willing to bet cash money that if you were to ask her Dom why he wanted those pictures he'd tell you much the same thing I said. At least that's probably why he wanted them in the beginning, now they are much more important to him than that. It's matter of pride. I would suggest that many, many people do irrational things due to a misguided sense of pride.

I also wasn't siding with the Dom, I would never handle that situation in that manner. If it were me, and she refused to do something, as soon I saw that it was a limit for her I would have offered an alternative task, probably one that involved discipline, and made a mental note to discuss this with her in detail outside the scene. Maybe he's not a very expereinced Dom, in the same way that she has no experience as a sub.

I was attempting to make the point that there are, as the old saying goes, "Three sides to every story; my side, your side, and the truth." We've heard only one side. And before you whip out your nit-pick again, I am in no way suggesting that Sarah555 is being anything less than truthful. But is it simply human nature that most people will phrase or shade their telling of a situation to make themselves look a little better and their opponent look a little worse.

My last point was that Sarah555 has expressed an interest in keeping the relationship -so I suggested a compromise. That's what people who are having a problem usually do to get past the problem.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go look at some pictures of my Pretty sub.

 

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[Obedient Little Puppy]

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I'd also be willing to bet cash money that if you were to ask her Dom why he wanted those pictures he'd tell you much the same thing I said. At least that's probably why he wanted them in the beginning, now they are much more important to him than that. It's matter of pride.

But if this is the case, then why is he not prepared to discuss it rationally? Why does he persist on pushing this when she has made it blindingly obvious that she is not happy with it?

 

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[sarah555]

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Just to further explain. Yes, my master told me that I never mentioned that pictures were not allowed in the beginning. But that's because, I'm new and ignorant. I DIDN'T KNOW pictures were part of it.

I told him the reason I don't want pictures, I mean, even if he tries his best to keep it safe, crap happens, you never know, his camera gets stolen, his PC got hacked. Even deleted pictures can be retrieve. I told him if I had nude pictures that leaked out, I wouldn't be able to handle it, it would kill me. And I tried pleading with him to understand but he said there is no negotiation on this matter. As long as I refuse the pictures, he will feel humiliated.

I'm agonizing because I want to be with my master, and I don't know if I should compromise on something so critical that if it goes wrong, could ruin my life.

 

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