Offended.

Discussion in 'Section open for any subject to discuss' started by kajmir, Oct 31, 2010.

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  1. kajmir

    kajmir Member

    I was looking around in forum and for the first time I found a post that deeply offends me and what offends me more is that it seems to be allowed.

    I've always had a deep appreciation that the people and staff here allow such freedom of view and speech.

    However, this post has disgusted me so badly I feel I may not return. Should I not return I'd like to thank you all for having me. I'd also like to thank you for the good chats and advice and I hope you don't stop for the next newbie.

    (Just Incase)
    My Reguards,
    -Kaj
     
  2. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Wow. Sorry to hear that Kaj. I hope you don't leave. What post is it that's got you so upset?
     
  3. sillylittlepet

    sillylittlepet Active Member

    w-wait!! Kajmir!! Give us another chance!!

    What post made you so upset?!
     
  4. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    what kind of post is it that you are offended so much? tell us and we'll try to fix the problem!
    please don't leave you are a part of our community
    MJ
     
  5. kajmir

    kajmir Member

    Before I say who or what I want to say a few things:

    As mentioned I have respected the freedom that has been allowed on here. I will honestly tell you all some things blew my mind, they just never occured to me, but I was never once offended. After giving them some thought, even if I didn't agree or it wouldn't be my kink I could at least understand how someone else might be into it.

    Futhermore, I have had an appreciate for the people on this site making it clear that in reality the submissive it ultimately in control and not an abuse victum. Seb's intelligence, Slp's silliness, Jey's off-handed way of looking at things, De's insight, etc have all made this a great forum for me. I've never spent this much time even on a gaming forum.

    But what I read in http://www.smplace.com/forum/1874-d...aster-slave-relationship-under-true-love.html has disgusted me and frankly on more then one level.

    - I am not religious and that's putting it mildly, but to each their own. But to have someone asking to sacrafice their life for the sake of love, I find it truely offensive. I am not so over-the-top to say that life is a gift but to suggest a romantic suicide pact is an abomination to me.

    - To suggest that one would kill himself over an imperfect first time is not only beyond my comprehension but it's fucking childish. Got news for you, it's messing and doesn't go perfectly at the best of times, life is messy, after 29 years you should jump out of your fantasy world and join the rest of us.

    - "Once I've found my true love, we will, with time, take our lives, together, as she especially, but also I, could never become old." You selfish bastard to act like this is some romantic deed. You ramble on about true love and you have no idea what true love is. It doesn't fade with looks or age. It's about needing them with you, wanting to make their life better with your acts and words, it's about life being better when you're with them.

    - "My slave would have to be much younger than me, as well..... youth and beauty is endlessly important, both for me and her. It is definitely not just because of that, though; the life after "death" is so much better than that in the present life, although I would still want to spend our time together in this life, as well, thus we wouldn't kill ourselves before after a few years." If youth and beauty is of so much importance to you, you don't detroy it with some bullshit vision of a romantic suicide. You treat it with love and respect, you don't destroy it in some warped twisted disillusioned suiside pact.

    Does it occur to you wwhat this would do to your family? Friends? Her's? You don't need a true love, You need some fucking therapy.

    This has NOTHING to do with my kink isn't yours or what this website stands for. The target of this site as far as I could see has mostly been about saftey, suggesting moral guidlines, teaching and good plain sexual fun that is consenting and for the good of all. While his sexual requirements I have no real issue with, his opening paragraph is FAR from what I would consider smplace stands for.

    This post is about someone who has serious bloody mental issues and little disguard for his own life or his supposed true loves. It's fine to be interested and comfortable in death but I DON'T and WILL never view it as ok to suggest destoying life is something you discuss like going for a long romantic walk on a beach.

    Ultimately he is discussing in the eyes of the law, an illegal activity, we don't allow children or animals discussed, this should be no different.. Some of you MIGHT say well if she is consenting so be it. Can you all tell me you wouldn't stop someone from suicide? I doubt that very much. If you all had such a disguard for saftey and life you wouldn't be here discussing what you do.


    Is the staff and community of this site really ok with that?

    If you wish to block me from posting because of this, I understand. But I would PLEAD that you allow others in this community to read this and let them express themselves even if it's to disagree with me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  6. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    I'll try not to be off handed this time I have read death's post and it was somewhat strange and I understand your point kaj I think we'll need a debate and mods here


    No one will block you
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  7. kajmir

    kajmir Member

    You're off handedness isn't bad. Don't take it as such.
     
  8. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    I haven't took it bad my dear I know that I'm offhanded
    how bout Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?
     
  9. kajmir

    kajmir Member

    Perfect example.
     
  10. sillylittlepet

    sillylittlepet Active Member

    Kaj I like you a lot, and I hope Death's post doesnt bring you to leave the forum, because he posts here quite a bit and is actually a nice, if not dark, guy.

    The tagline for SMplace is "the forum is open to all aspects of BDSM..."
    Death post falls into that category, this is a critical aspect of BDSM for him, and he imagines it will be critical for the woman he's hoping to fall in love with as well.
    His views are extreme for me (suicide, moving to a new country, etc) but they aren't for him and he's looking for a woman who will consent to all these criteria. As far as "safe, sane, and consensual goes" he has the last part hands down.

    If we look under the Forum Rules (http://www.smplace.com/forum/47-forum-rules.html) Dorei only says that scat, bestiality, and underage porn are forbidden. I assume he means that porn is forbidden, not discussion. Suicide doesn't fit in that category, and it wasnt porn. It was a discussion/personals thread.

    I see SMplace as a community where people can safely discuss and their fetishes, desires, and lifestlyes. There are people on this forum who cant share these thoughts and feelings with other people in their daily lives because it would be too extreme. I'm sure many (if not most) forums here have never shared this aspect of their lives with anyone other than partners and playmates.

    Death finds romance in, interestingly, the act of dying. Its offensive and wrong to you, but its very important to him. Remember, all these things he's asking for are 100% consensual. This is not bestiality, or pedophilia, or rape, it is a consensual agreement between two adults.

    Whether he's living in a dream world or not is completely besides the point.
    Some people on the forum actually need help, like seriously have fetishes that are unhealthy and unsafe or are engaged in an abusive relationship. I dont think this is one of those cases

    (this might be a sliiiiightly biased post, since I'm actually pretty fond of Death lol)

    EDIT: okay and yes I dont want him to kill himself and obviously I dont want anyone to kill themselves, especially, especially in the face of depression of hopelessness, but this isnt what Death is saying. He's saying that he finds beauty and romance in death and dislikes the idea of growing old. Its illegal in the states to kill yourself (which has always confused me, like, you're dead. what are they gonna do, fine you? Fine your family? That would be awful) but he lives in Sweden. The laws could different there
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  11. kajmir

    kajmir Member

    The tagline for SMplace is "the forum is open to all aspects of BDSM..."

    There is nothing BDSM about suicide. Sorry. And maybe its not in the rules because it's never been brought up?

    As for death himself, I am understanding and even agreeable to other aspects, (the filling of cum is frankly hot)...in the ad and his other posts but I have a real issue with suicide being condoned. I think it is WRONG to romantize (sp?) taking a life even your own.


    "As far as "safe, sane, and consensual goes" he has the last part hands down."

    Consenual ok, wtf is safe about death? Or sane? Look at all the posts made in this forum for the benefit of saftey and to avoid death, injury and other such things? So because it's a fetish to die this is ok? Do you consider it sane to find suicide acceptable because he finds it romantic? REALLY? He finds beauty in it? Fine take a picture, that's safe and sane, NOT asking for someone to kill themself with/for you.
     
  12. Phoray

    Phoray Member

    Sane, maybe. Sanity is a social definition. Consensual is what he's going for so definitely. But safe death is an oxymoron.

    kind of reminds me of consensual cannibalism. Very complicated subject. Illegal, I think, everywhere. I condone assisted medical suicide for terminal patients and animals. Suicide because you don't want to grow old seems like a youthful and brash thing to say that usually is never acted on later on when the "death date" approaches and the individual realizes he hasn't accomplished everything he wishes to.

    I think I find it just as stupid as you do- but would, in general, ignore it.
     
  13. sillylittlepet

    sillylittlepet Active Member

    Man I'm not saying its a good idea, I just dont think its a big deal

    Our moral code tells us that killing ourselves is wrong.
    Our moral code
    Let me repeat it again, our moral code.
    Whats normal for a certain group of people does not inherently make it normal for everyone. Morality is a very sticky and messy debate because its always changing and its not inherent, its learned. I have my personal set of moral beliefs

    I dont see the post as so outrageous that it warrants an entire discussion

    Suicide is part of viewpoint on his life. What do you want to do about it? Maybe you should just PM him and tell him yourself that you have a problem. Or PM the mods, since your big issue seems to be that most of us haven't batted an eye

    (romanticize =P)
     
  14. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Kaj, I won't speak for Death; he's quite capable of doing so for himself. I too consider Death's post extreme. He and I have discussed some aspects of his desires and I've suggested that his ad is probably pushing away the sort of women he is looking for. His stance on love, death, and virginity is extremely romantic, and, as I've said to him, unrealistic. To die for love is beautiful but stupid.
    What he seeks is informed much more by idealism than by the practical experiences of a day-to-day relationship.

    However, that said, Death feels very deeply committed to these ideas. For him they are central to his vision of life. He is longing for a woman with whom he can share a degree of passion and a view of life that are both intense and rare. I can admire his refusal to compromise what he is looking for even as I expect that very high standards and extremism make it unlikely that he will find what he is seeking.

    His romanticizing of suicide is extreme, but hardly unique. I suspect that, were he to enter into a truly satisfying relationship, his interest in suicide would diminish in the face of the realities of living with one you truly love. I do not think that suicide is an inherently insane idea. I can certainly picture circumstances in which suicide would be a rational choice (terminal degenerative illness, for example). It is certainly a selfish choice--as you point out, it would undoubtedly distress his family and friends were he to do it. But as human beings, we have the right to be selfish. Indeed, d/s play is, on one level, inherently selfish--doms prioritize their sexual pleasure over their partners (although, of course, it's much more complex than that).

    It's also important to realize that a site like this provides an environment in which we can express fully out sexual desires, even if those desires are extreme. I have known two boys who are fascinated with the idea of being castrated. At least one of these boys finds that desire deeply shameful and yet at the same time powerfully compelling. He was surprised that I was willing to listen to his castration fantasy and even more surprised that I didn't try to shame him for it. But for me, I felt it was important to respect his fantasy, precisely because it was extreme. I certainly would never actually play out such a scene (although I could imagine playing out a fake-castration scene, perhaps as a mind-fuck). But most of us have extreme desires (one might argue that d/s play is, in our society, inherently extreme), and many of us have experienced shame over what we find arousing. Lord knows, as a teen, I found my homosexuality shameful. Had my friends tried to shame me for my desires, I think it would have been deeply painful and damaging to me.

    So when Death tells me about his suicide fantasy, I feel obligated to treat it with respect, even though I think there are problems with it. Respecting the fact that this fantasy is very powerful and meaningful to him is not the same thing as approving of it or encouraging it. Rather, to me it is an acknowledgement that human desire is complex, messy, and mysterious.

    Have you ever seen Harold and Maude? It's a marvelous film about a young man, who, like Death, is obsessed with suicide, who falls in love with a old woman. I rather expect that when Death finds his true love, he may learn what Harold learns, that life is worth living.

    Death has a right to tell the forum what he is seeking in a woman. And you have a right to say you find it extreme. I think it is good for him to hear from others that what seems reasonable to him seems unreasonable to others. A forum like this is most valuable when we can all express our thoughts and desires and our reactions to the desires of others honestly.
     
  15. Death

    Death Member

    Thanks, sillylittlepet.... I really appreciate it. You seem to understand what I mean in that thread really well, even if you do not agree with those views of mine. And thanks to you too, sebastian.

    That's correct, by the way... suicide is not illegal in Sweden. Not that it should matter if it is or isn't.

    I'm sorry for having offended you, kajmir. I use to try to be nice to people, even when I don't know them, so I'm sorry you got so offended. I did have a period here of being really pissed, due to some issues I had with moderation on the forum, but it turned out I wasn't as informed as I should have been in the matter, and although I think that person I'm having in mind should've gotten another chance to stay here, others didn't want the decision changed, so... yeah. :l I do hope I won't be disallowed to speak my mind on that, as a result of this, because that'd be devastating to me, to say the very least... or at least so if I'd get the same treatment on other BDSM forums that I'd post it on, instead. You say I shouldn't be allowed to kill myself, or same for whoever I find... but nothing is going to stop some people from killing themselves. I am one of those people, and I am not alone. We are all going to die, sooner or later. However, I, and many others beside me, want to die young, some with a romantic tone to it, and in the best way one can die, instead of growing old, and often leading an unhappy or dull life, later on. Romantic death is not an all that unusual thought... just take Romeo and Juliet as an example. Okay, those deaths were accidental but even still, many do think they still are romantic... not that that novel is from where I got all this, or anything... as for jumping out of my "fantasy world" to "join" the "rest"... why would I want to do that...? If I wouldn't find the right girl, then I just wouldn't. I'd find her in another life, then, instead. I really don't want to wait that long but if that is what I will have to do... then that'd just have to be the way it'd have to be. As for true love, otherwise... you seem to think that I am cold in regards to love. I think most would think that I obsess too much over it. Merely such a thing like taking care of my little girl, when she'd get sick in the flu, for instance, is one of my greatest desires. Bringing her breakfast to the bed, making her tea, holding her close to me to warm her, even though that'd make me sick, also... it'd be so wonderful.... but that doesn't stop me from wanting to die an early death with her. Again, I'm sorry for offending you... I don't know what more to say than that.
     
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