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kajmir

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The tagline for SMplace is "the forum is open to all aspects of BDSM..."

There is nothing BDSM about suicide. Sorry. And maybe its not in the rules because it's never been brought up?

As for death himself, I am understanding and even agreeable to other aspects, (the filling of cum is frankly hot)...in the ad and his other posts but I have a real issue with suicide being condoned. I think it is WRONG to romantize (sp?) taking a life even your own.


"As far as "safe, sane, and consensual goes" he has the last part hands down."

Consenual ok, wtf is safe about death? Or sane? Look at all the posts made in this forum for the benefit of saftey and to avoid death, injury and other such things? So because it's a fetish to die this is ok? Do you consider it sane to find suicide acceptable because he finds it romantic? REALLY? He finds beauty in it? Fine take a picture, that's safe and sane, NOT asking for someone to kill themself with/for you.
 
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Phoray

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Sane, maybe. Sanity is a social definition. Consensual is what he's going for so definitely. But safe death is an oxymoron.

kind of reminds me of consensual cannibalism. Very complicated subject. Illegal, I think, everywhere. I condone assisted medical suicide for terminal patients and animals. Suicide because you don't want to grow old seems like a youthful and brash thing to say that usually is never acted on later on when the "death date" approaches and the individual realizes he hasn't accomplished everything he wishes to.

I think I find it just as stupid as you do- but would, in general, ignore it.
 
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sillylittlepet

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Man I'm not saying its a good idea, I just dont think its a big deal

Our moral code tells us that killing ourselves is wrong.
Our moral code
Let me repeat it again, our moral code.
Whats normal for a certain group of people does not inherently make it normal for everyone. Morality is a very sticky and messy debate because its always changing and its not inherent, its learned. I have my personal set of moral beliefs

I dont see the post as so outrageous that it warrants an entire discussion

Suicide is part of viewpoint on his life. What do you want to do about it? Maybe you should just PM him and tell him yourself that you have a problem. Or PM the mods, since your big issue seems to be that most of us haven't batted an eye

(romanticize =P)
 
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sebastian

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Kaj, I won't speak for Death; he's quite capable of doing so for himself. I too consider Death's post extreme. He and I have discussed some aspects of his desires and I've suggested that his ad is probably pushing away the sort of women he is looking for. His stance on love, death, and virginity is extremely romantic, and, as I've said to him, unrealistic. To die for love is beautiful but stupid.
What he seeks is informed much more by idealism than by the practical experiences of a day-to-day relationship.

However, that said, Death feels very deeply committed to these ideas. For him they are central to his vision of life. He is longing for a woman with whom he can share a degree of passion and a view of life that are both intense and rare. I can admire his refusal to compromise what he is looking for even as I expect that very high standards and extremism make it unlikely that he will find what he is seeking.

His romanticizing of suicide is extreme, but hardly unique. I suspect that, were he to enter into a truly satisfying relationship, his interest in suicide would diminish in the face of the realities of living with one you truly love. I do not think that suicide is an inherently insane idea. I can certainly picture circumstances in which suicide would be a rational choice (terminal degenerative illness, for example). It is certainly a selfish choice--as you point out, it would undoubtedly distress his family and friends were he to do it. But as human beings, we have the right to be selfish. Indeed, d/s play is, on one level, inherently selfish--doms prioritize their sexual pleasure over their partners (although, of course, it's much more complex than that).

It's also important to realize that a site like this provides an environment in which we can express fully out sexual desires, even if those desires are extreme. I have known two boys who are fascinated with the idea of being castrated. At least one of these boys finds that desire deeply shameful and yet at the same time powerfully compelling. He was surprised that I was willing to listen to his castration fantasy and even more surprised that I didn't try to shame him for it. But for me, I felt it was important to respect his fantasy, precisely because it was extreme. I certainly would never actually play out such a scene (although I could imagine playing out a fake-castration scene, perhaps as a mind-fuck). But most of us have extreme desires (one might argue that d/s play is, in our society, inherently extreme), and many of us have experienced shame over what we find arousing. Lord knows, as a teen, I found my homosexuality shameful. Had my friends tried to shame me for my desires, I think it would have been deeply painful and damaging to me.

So when Death tells me about his suicide fantasy, I feel obligated to treat it with respect, even though I think there are problems with it. Respecting the fact that this fantasy is very powerful and meaningful to him is not the same thing as approving of it or encouraging it. Rather, to me it is an acknowledgement that human desire is complex, messy, and mysterious.

Have you ever seen Harold and Maude? It's a marvelous film about a young man, who, like Death, is obsessed with suicide, who falls in love with a old woman. I rather expect that when Death finds his true love, he may learn what Harold learns, that life is worth living.

Death has a right to tell the forum what he is seeking in a woman. And you have a right to say you find it extreme. I think it is good for him to hear from others that what seems reasonable to him seems unreasonable to others. A forum like this is most valuable when we can all express our thoughts and desires and our reactions to the desires of others honestly.
 
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Death

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Thanks, sillylittlepet.... I really appreciate it. You seem to understand what I mean in that thread really well, even if you do not agree with those views of mine. And thanks to you too, sebastian.

That's correct, by the way... suicide is not illegal in Sweden. Not that it should matter if it is or isn't.

I'm sorry for having offended you, kajmir. I use to try to be nice to people, even when I don't know them, so I'm sorry you got so offended. I did have a period here of being really pissed, due to some issues I had with moderation on the forum, but it turned out I wasn't as informed as I should have been in the matter, and although I think that person I'm having in mind should've gotten another chance to stay here, others didn't want the decision changed, so... yeah. :l I do hope I won't be disallowed to speak my mind on that, as a result of this, because that'd be devastating to me, to say the very least... or at least so if I'd get the same treatment on other BDSM forums that I'd post it on, instead. You say I shouldn't be allowed to kill myself, or same for whoever I find... but nothing is going to stop some people from killing themselves. I am one of those people, and I am not alone. We are all going to die, sooner or later. However, I, and many others beside me, want to die young, some with a romantic tone to it, and in the best way one can die, instead of growing old, and often leading an unhappy or dull life, later on. Romantic death is not an all that unusual thought... just take Romeo and Juliet as an example. Okay, those deaths were accidental but even still, many do think they still are romantic... not that that novel is from where I got all this, or anything... as for jumping out of my "fantasy world" to "join" the "rest"... why would I want to do that...? If I wouldn't find the right girl, then I just wouldn't. I'd find her in another life, then, instead. I really don't want to wait that long but if that is what I will have to do... then that'd just have to be the way it'd have to be. As for true love, otherwise... you seem to think that I am cold in regards to love. I think most would think that I obsess too much over it. Merely such a thing like taking care of my little girl, when she'd get sick in the flu, for instance, is one of my greatest desires. Bringing her breakfast to the bed, making her tea, holding her close to me to warm her, even though that'd make me sick, also... it'd be so wonderful.... but that doesn't stop me from wanting to die an early death with her. Again, I'm sorry for offending you... I don't know what more to say than that.
 
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Death

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Do you consider it sane to find suicide acceptable because he finds it romantic? REALLY? He finds beauty in it? Fine take a picture, that's safe and sane, NOT asking for someone to kill themself with/for you.

Just for the sake of information, I would never photograph someone who has died. I think it's immoral, as I wouldn't be able to ask for that person's consent, and asking the family or close people would hardly be a wise thing to do. Not that the death in the dead body is what I obsess about... I don't even like that part, with the body becoming a corpse. :/ What I like so much is the part where you leave this life to be together in the afterlife, for eternity.
 
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Death

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On the subject of Romeo and Juliet, it's worth pointing out that their death is tragic. It's a senseless waste caused by the hatred that exists between their two families. Shakespeare is not romanticizing suicide. He's exploring what happens when unreasoning hatred interrupts the course of love.

Shakespeare doesn't, but many people who have read it, or read *about* it, have perceived the death parts to be romantic. Romeo and Juliet is not a good example, but romantic death is something many find beauty in. Just here in Sweden, some years ago, it was on the news that a couple was known to have killed themselves because they wanted to romantically join in death. I remember when my sister started talking about it... she found it to be so stupid of them to get that into their minds. I briefly thought of why she would say it was so stupid of them, and then just said, "I think it's romantic." She got a bit upset that I said that and asked me why I would think that. I just shrugged. Why try to explain? I had never thought all that much about it, before, but after her comments, it has never left my mind.
 
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Phoray

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the more I think about it... I remember reading a very spiritual book about a couple who would leave their bodies on purpose to go off and explore the world in a different way. No drugs were used they just trained themselves to be able to loosen their souls hold on the body. At one point, after accomplishing everything they wished to accomplish, they mutually decided to loosen their hold and never return to their corporeal bodies. I can't remember if this were just their plan or if this were a fiction. I really think it was a plan now I recall.

I found the notion frightening, exciting, and very romantic. The fact that no drugs or violence were or was to be used in their spiritual explorations and in their deaths made it very peaceful and non traumatizing. And the families and friends would think they'd both died in their sleep- crazy coincidence to them.

Now, they weren't going to be young when they did this- but as something to do after I reached that stage of peacefulness, say, in my 60's depending on my general health? I could and would be entirely ok with that.
 
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