picture taking and sharing without consent

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by new1, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. new1

    new1 Member

    Scenario: blindfolded and tied, unknowingly subject to phone camera pictures. These were then shared. Degrading taunting followed online by anons. Is this common? Considered a legitimate way of breaking someone? All views appreciated.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
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  2. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

    If it was done without your consent, it is automatically not legitimate. There is probably legal action you can take, because although photos belong to the person who took them, not the subject, this is a kind of harassment. Depending how it makes you feel and how you and your dom are, you may or may not want to do that, but it's certainly an option.

    Doing this with both parties' consent is common, and maybe that's where your dom got the idea or something, but posting picturse of you online without your permission is not okay.

    Whatever his intentions were, it is time for a big talk about consent and boundaries. If he did other SM things that you did not like, and asked for consent after the fact, it would be rape or assault. Maybe he's a truly nice but mislead person, maybe he's an asshole, maybe somewhere in the middle, but either way, this shouldn't be a question you have to come to us and ask because it should not have happened, and after happening, it should have been resolved between you (and then you could probably come to us ask more).
  3. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    A couple things: 1) Truly non-consensual activity of any kind is immoral, not part of BDSM practice (since consent is a foundational principle for BDSM) and depending on the activity, illegal (among other things, it might count as blackmail). If the subject is willing to have embarrassing pics taken and shared (for example, some subs have a 'blackmail' fetish), then go ahead. But if the sub is truly non-consenting, knock it off. So in order to do this, have a good long talk with the sub before play begins. Never negotiate consent once play has started--many subs become too submissive to refuse consent once play has started, in which case the consent is essentially coerced.

    2) Remember that once a pic is sent to someone it will NEVER disappear. You lose all control of the pic once it's sent to someone else. It can be posted online, copied endlessly, and so on. This may have massive repercussions for the sub. If the pic can be identified as the sub (for example, if his face or an identifying birthmark, tattoo, or the like is visible, or the sub is identified by name), it could ruin his current or future career, damage his relationships and reputation, eliminate the ability to run for public office, and so on. So NEVER send sexually-explicit pics or videos of anyone, dom or sub, without having a serious discussion of the way it will affect the subject's current and future life. Sending such material out without the sub's permission is wildly irresponsible behavior on the dom's part. Doms do not have the right to damage a sub's life just for a brief sexual thrill.

    3) This all assumes the sub is an adult. If the sub is a minor, sexually explicit photos or videos may well fall into the category of child pornography, and sending such images to minors is also a crime in many areas. Minors cannot give legal consent on such things, so even if the sub or recipient is willing, it's probably a criminal offense, and can land you on the sex offender lists for life, which will basically ruin your entire life.

    4) 'Breaking a sub' is a problematic concept. Some subs need a strong sense of coercion to enable them to give up control and enjoy what is happening to them. For example, some people are raised in very sexually conservative households that teach them that sexual pleasure is immoral (or that kinky sex is immoral). Subs in this category often love bondage, because it means that they have no choice except to relax and enjoy what is happening to them. Alpha male types often need to feel coerced through bondage, humiliation, and so on because their natural aggressive drives make it hard for them to relinquish control and engage in submissive behavior. So subs like this often need to feel like their resistance is overwhelmed and that they have been 'broken'. So they are willing participants in their 'breaking'. In this sense, it is reasonable to think of breaking a sub.
    However, in the porn, a person is often broken unwillingly. For example, in a porn story an alpha male might be an asshole who treats people poorly. The dom in the story kidnaps the alpha male, ties him up and proceeds to break his resistance; by the end of the story, the initially unwilling sub may discover that he enjoys being humiliated and becomes a willing victim. This works well in porn and in role-playing. (For another example, Katherine Hepburn's early film career was self-consciously based on the principle that audiences enjoyed seeing her get her comeuppance, so she often pushed directors to include scenes that humiliated her in some way.) However, in real life, doing this is called rape, sexual assault, domestic abuse, and so on. It's a crime. And it's immoral. Again, BDSM is founded on the principle of consent. If the sub consents to his or her treatment and understands the ramifications of what's being done, go for it. 'Break your sub'--you'll both enjoy it. But if the sub doesn't consent, or doesn't understand the ramifications of what is going to be done, DON'T DO IT. Good doms do not want to permanently damage their sub's mental health, which is what actually breaking a person's spirit is. So don't confuse the porn with reality.

    You may have gotten the idea that I think this kind of play is a bad idea. You're right. I think there are ways it can be done safely (blindfold the sub and tell him you're taking pics when you're not; take pics and tell him you're sharing them when you're not; share pics but only after a serious conversation about the consequences), but the scenario you outlined is immoral and quite possibly illegal.

    Is this common? Hard to say, but I don't think so. There are certainly assholes out there pretending to be doms who do this sort of thing (think for example about all the 'revenge' websites, where people submit embarrassing or explicit pics of exes--most aren't doms, but it's the same principle). And I suppose there are some serious doms who enjoy this scenario enough that they'll do it without thinking through the issue of consent (or perhaps are too inexperienced to realize the dangers). But I think most serious doms realize that this is both a violation of consent and a threat to the sub's reputation and career and will therefore not play out such a scene the way you've described it.
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  4. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Having read Smallest's response, it suddenly occurs to me that I was assuming the OP was the dom in this situation, but Smallest was reading it as if the OP was the sub. My apologies for missing that possibility. She's right. If the OP was the sub and had this done to her without consent, she should at a minimum talk to the dom and require him to try to get those pics destroyed (probably not possible, but it will at least reduce the odds of them circulating). She also may also have a legal case, so if the dom was being a real dick, she might threaten to contact the police or a lawyer. But that's a last resort if things get ugly. Hopefully the dom was merely inexperienced and hadn't thought through the implications of his actions.
  5. new1

    new1 Member


    (I )The sub(for this particular scene) was the one whose consent was not sought when a dom took this decision. I think I will use precaution and prevention next time if possible. They are being used for malicious control purposes right now. It has already gone way beyond damage control. Trying to come to terms with what I deem to be mental rape. Worse still the people he shared them with hacked all my home devices in the name of trolling. It is a deliberate act of degradation(very hurtful to an extremely shy, private, natural dom on first submissions on this level) . ..Very sad accusations that he was paid to do it by someone I finished a relationship with. Sigh.

    Thank you for your contributions.
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  6. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    New1: if you were hacked or otherwise victimized, and you have reason to think this was malicious, contact a lawyer or your local police department. I'm not a lawyer, and I have no idea whether something prosecutable happened, but if he victimized you, he may well have victimized others, and lodging a complaint might help the police go after him at a later date (putting him on their radar, establishing a pattern, etc).

    It sounds like a shitty situation, and doubly lousy for someone new to the scene. There are decent doms out there, I promise.
  7. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

    Exactly what Sebastian said. I don't know how much of a case you have, but at the very least this has escalated to harassment, and even if they can't do much, the police will have to show up at his door for a 'talk.' Even if you had given him permission to distribute the photos, what happened afterward is wrong.

    ETA- The more clear version is that taking/distributing the photos may not be a crime, but harassing you and encouraging others to harass you is.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
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  8. MakeMeWhimper1981

    MakeMeWhimper1981 New Member

    I'm new here so for whatever it's worth...I LOVE watching videos of people masturbating or having sex without knowing they're being videotaped! I fantasize about trying it myself, but I have distinguishable tattoos and a professional career so I'm too worried I'd be "found out" ;)
  9. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

    In the case of 90% of those videos, they're staged. For the other 10%, they're just horrible. And way to completely ignore the very serious problem at hand.

    New1- Since this has gotten bumped anyway, I just wanted to say that I'd like to know what happens.
  10. new1

    new1 Member

    Smallest, this is going to be a very long drawn out process, involving forensic computer science... I'll update when possible. X
  11. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

    I'm happy just to hear that it's started. Things like this get blown over way too often.

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