Cattle Prod.... Stock Prod .... Reality???

KNOTTYER · Jan 1, 2013

I am looking for any real world experiences or input on using prods on a human.

There are lots of movies that depict this type of activity, but I haven't found a reliable source of intelligence to say what is go or no go.

The local farm supply has prods on the shelf... but the literature does not specify voltage or amperage.

Does this tool have a practical application for training a submissive?

Thanks in advance for any input.

KT

stanley_jeffries · Jan 1, 2013

Hi Knottyer,
My understanding is that "stock" cattle prods are far too powerful for safe use in S&M play. The devices used in S&M movies have been modified to be far less powerful than the standard units.

It would be far better to use a toy that is designed for the purpose instead of trying to adapt other devices like cattle prods or even TENS units. All of these devices tend use more current than is same in many circumstances.

You need to look for devices that make use of static electricity. Examples include violet wands (which seems to be highly recommended, but are very expensive), and the Tazapper, which I can recommend from personal experience.

http://www.toystoysonline.com/electric2.htm

These devices are safe to use repeatedly, and on pretty much any part of the body.

Cheers,
Stanley

sebastian · Jan 1, 2013

Cattle prods are designed to work on livestock, which have much thicker skin and a lot more body mass than humans do. They are essentially stronger versions of police TASERs and stun guns. Those devices occasionally kill people, mostly by triggering heart attacks, and cattle prods are even more dangerous because they are calibrated higher. These devices can also produce burns. Stick with purpose-built e-stim toys, like TENS units, violet wands, and zappers. Anything else is risking a trip to the hospital or the morgue.

KNOTTYER · Jan 2, 2013

Thanks for the responses and the link. Glad I asked before jumping in. Still not sure about using even the lower power device ( such as the link ) as a training aid. Also thought about adapting a dog training collar. I lean more toward positive reinforcement.. but I keep getting suggestions that are pain avoidance oriented.

Any how Thanks again for the input. Happy New Year

KT

stanley_jeffries · Jan 3, 2013

Happy New Year to you too

Dog collars are supposed to be pretty "safe", but given they are made by no-name companies in China I'm not sure how much I would trust that assumption

They also work using static electricity, but as Sebastian mentioned about the cattle prod, these devices are designed to pass the shock through fur and thicker skin than we humans have - so you have to be careful about the power setting.

Here are some YouTube clips of young people who are shocking themselves with these devices. There are plenty of other clips on the same subject. The difference between these reactions and an S&M scene is that it will be your job as the Dom to "charge up" your sub with sexual anticipation, and that will help her get through higher levels of pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFS4SMe0SY

The other thing about shock collars is to decide where it would be attached on the sub. Men have a very convenient "attachment point" around the scrotum, which is how you'll see this type of device used in hundreds of FemDom movies. But again, I would caution that if a shock collar is going to be used around a person's genitals you need to make sure you really understand the power levels, and also that the device will stay at a consistent power level during the scene.

For women I guess it's not as straightforward where to put these things, and that's why I tend to use the Tazapper.

In terms of the pain level from the Tazapper, there is no adjustment. It's one-level only, and I would describe the pain level as "challenging". Compared to impact pain it leaves no marks, and the "tingle" fades pretty quickly, so the device can be used repeatedly without physical damage.

With the Tazapper, instead of adjusting the power of the zap, you change the location of the zap. So start on some thick-skinned areas (eg. the heels of the feet), or on the ass. Move to more sensitive areas like the soles of the feet, or the ribcage.

Nipples and genitals are obviously at the most sensitive end, but the tongue and the ear lobes are also more sensitive areas.

To make it scarier for the sub, she can be blindfolded so she cannot see where the next zap is going to land.

These kinds of sessions can be pretty intense, and suit the "interrogation" roleplay format. You have to have good communication and make sure your sub will use her safeword if things get too much.

Here are some videos of the Tazapper being used on "ordinary people". In this first one you'll see people get zapped in a variety of places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxoFcKBUrQ

This one shows the Tazapper being used on the lower leg area repeatedly without leaving any marks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O50hgv45ok

Cheers,
Stanley

sebastian · Jan 3, 2013

One helpful rule to remember here is that a dom should always know what the sensations he is inflicting on the sub feel like. So if you want to explore electro play, you should start out on the receiving end first.

stanley_jeffries · Jan 3, 2013

Absolutely.

KNOTTYER · Jan 4, 2013

Thanks for the input. I understand checking things myself. When constructing a new rig I throw some significant weight and motion onto it so I know it wont collapse under her struggles. Same goes for new knots, harnesses, the feel of a gag...etc.
Do you have any evaluation on the effectiveness of these devices as aversion training aids?

stanley_jeffries · Jan 5, 2013

So I've used, and have experienced both the Tazapper and TENS.

TENS is a "below the waist" form of electrical torture (because of risks of cardiac arrest). In particular it works well on the genitals (both male and female), and because the power can be adjusted the possibility of it being used in an "aversion training" context is pretty good. But the sub would have to be in bondage on a bed, for example, because you have the control unit, and the wires etc.

I can tell you that a solid, prolonged shock from a TENS unit on a man's balls is not something trivial at all. I don't do "heavy" impact play, but I would say that you could make a TENS session feel as bad or worse than a firm caning, but without the risk of scarring.

For the Tazapper the power level is constant, so it's really about the repetition and the location of the zap on the body.

Repeated zaps to the genitals are very "challenging". Nowhere near the pain level of a TENS, but still pretty intense.

The Tazapper is more convenient than TENS, because to get a good TENS contact you need the pads located (and secured) properly with a layer of conducting gel. So the Tazapper is much more "spontaneous".

If a shock collar worked and was safe then it has the amazing added benefit of giving you the ability to inflict pain "remotely". By pressing a button you can send pain into your sub's most sensitive areas. That is a pretty powerful mental image

The sub could be anywhere in the house, and you just decide to press the button. So cool!

I would imagine a shock collar is the best approach for aversion training - after all that's what it's designed to do on a dog.

But you need to be totally sure that a shock collar is safe. Also, because your sub is female I wonder if a shock collar could be made to work somewhere around her pussy. Like I said previously, it's a lot easier on a man

I could imagine you could buy a pair of heavy latex panties and glue the shock unit inside them, so the tension of the latex tends to press the shock unit against her.

Cheers,
Stanley

KNOTTYER · Jan 5, 2013

The panties are a great idea. I dont want want to shock her from "anywhere in the house" just randomly. It really is as an aversion training device. She cusses, she gets zapped.... She refers to herself in the first person, she gets zapped....that kind of thing. Also, I dont know what sizes the collars come in (I will be finding out) but, Wrapping them around the base of her boobs might be possible. maybe even see if the control frequency can be set to control two or more collars.

:devil:

I have been thinking also about figuring out how to adjust the power from a stock prod to make it safer. Just buy one and sacrifice it to science.....

Cattle Prod.... Stock Prod .... Reality???

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