The Perfect Sub

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Sally, Jan 18, 2012.

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  1. Sally

    Sally Member

    I have asked this before, but the thought struck me again when I took the dishes with my Lord. "The Perfect Sub" how should I be? I am a little troll sub, almost pet, a little cat ... diseplin does not work on me and I live to be as sweet as possible. always playful and childlike. and I find myself thinking that this is not properly way to be a sub. I'm too vanilla to be able to call myself BDSM. something I know is nonsense, because a few days ago, I took part in really funny needle play. I will post pictures later;)


    one reason may be because I say stop quite often and even if he always is my Lord and I always call him that, we are not in a 24 / 7 D / s relationship. but he likes it, are happy with it. so why do I think that I am not properly sub. and I do not feel it for my Lord, but for all the BDSM community.

    There are some others who feel that way? and why?
     
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  2. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    I don't really understand your question, Sally. Are you asking what qualities the idea sub should have? My answer would be that the idea sub has all the qualities that please his/her dom, and no qualities that displease his/her dom. That means that there is no ideal sub, because each perfect sub will differ according to what each dom wants. So there's a theoretical ideal sub for each dom, but not a universal ideal sub.

    If discipline doesn't work on you, you and your master probably need to rethink discipline. The basic principle of discipline is pretty much universal--reward good behavior and punish bad behavior.
     
  3. JettOnly

    JettOnly Member

    If you are happy and he is happy then that is perfect - there is no right or wrong - only what works for both of you

    If you both dont like a discpline dynamic you dont need to have that
    But
    (and I am taking this from my dog training roots here)
    Punishment dosent have to be harsh to be effective - and you dont have to activly use positive punishment to 'train' a behaviour

    Trying to put this in as short as I can

    Reward is something that makes you more likely to do the thing again
    Punishment is something that makes you less likely to do the thing again

    So if you do something your Lord dosent like and he spanks you for it - and that just makes you angry and resentful but dosent change your behaviour - then it wasnt punishment - it was abuse (I am sure it wasnt ment but you get the point)

    If you enjoy it then you are more likely to do the 'bad' thing again then it was reward, not punishment

    There is also positive and negative
    Positive means adding something - negative means taking something away

    So positive punishment would mean you do something 'bad' and he ADDS something you dont like to make it less likely for you to do that thing again

    Positive reward - you do something 'good' and he makes something nice happen to make you want to do the 'good' thing again

    Negative punishment - You do something 'bad' and he takes away something you like (for example his attention, being alowed on the sofa) to make you less likely to do the 'bad' thing again

    Negative reward - you do something 'good' and he takes away something you dont like (removes an uncomfy collar, stops spanking you)

    For ME in any training I prefer positive reward and negative punishment (when needed)

    well timed positive rewards make people happy, confident and speedy to obay

    Well timed positive punishment reduces peoples confidence, they may obay quickly but they will not offer other behaviours that might be fun for fear of the consiquences
     
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  4. RopeRanger

    RopeRanger Member

    Punishment or negative reinforcement is about finding the proper currency. This can be anything you place a value on. Going back to my dog, they are social animals and so often simply refusing eye contact and ignoring her is the harshest punishment I can use. This is used until she approaches me in an apologetic posture. When she does well she’s rewarded with playtime and extra attention. (Imagine your Lord readying himself for playtime and then simply ignoring you or just walking out the door)

    I am not in a 24/7 relationship with my girls. We use ritual to indicate the transfer of power. Once this happens they are 'in character" and I expect them to behave in a certain manner. Do you perhaps not feel "properly" sub because he is too lenient, or is not challenging you? Is it time to reevaluate your limits? You should be talking to him about this.

    I think Sebastian has hit the nail on the head. Rather than trying to be the perfect definition of a sub you should aim to meet your Lord's expectations. Saying stop does not lessen your status as a sub. My girls say stop quite often which is why stop is not our safe word. For us it simply means I need to reevaluate what I'm doing or asking of them. Often it just means they need a break to gather themselves. Again, this is a function of your Lord's expectations.
     
  5. Sally

    Sally Member

    maybe I explained myself wrong. this has nothing to do with punishment. that I do not react is part of the game ... sorry if it was confusing.

    I do not feel right because I'm not extreme enough. that I can not claim my place in the bdsm community. I know it's nonsense so I was wondering if anyone else has it like that, you feel to vanilla. why and what can I do about it.
     
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  6. JettOnly

    JettOnly Member

    Can I ask
    Are you both happy with what you do?

    and yes I have felt like that, I felt I couldnt be into BDSM because I dont enjoy pain
    Then I got talking to a very nice guy who has been in the scene for years - who also dosent like any pain

    Its about doing what you both like, not what you think you should be doing - everyone likes different things
    One person may be into flogging till they are black and blue but would find a blowjob way too kinky

    If you feel you want to try new things then talk about them and give them a go - some you may like
    but
    if you dont want to try things then you dont have to try them

    You have the same right to be in the BDSM comunity as anyone else, its up to you, if you feel you are a sub, and you and your partner are totaly happy with that then that is what you are
     
  7. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Sally, I understand your question now. You're feeling sort of inadequate as a sub because you aren't as hardcore as some subs. I think that's a relatively common feeling, among both doms and subs. I've occasionally felt inadequate because I'm not a "super rope-dom".

    Do you enjoy power exchange in some way? Do you enjoy being told what to do by your dom, or being submissive to his spankings or fuckings or verbal abuse or ropes or whatever other forms you play you two engage in? If you do, you're a sub, you have a place in the BDSM community, and you're where you should be. There is no ideal level of submission. Just because there are pain pigs and mummification fanatics out there doesn't mean that you're not a sub. It just means that they like certain forms of play more than you do. The only person who can decide how far you should go in your submission is you. Even your master can't make that decision for you; he can only guide you after you've made that submission. If your master is basically happy and you're basically happy, you're being the perfect sub for your situation.

    Also, I think it is a very common quality for subs to feel they need to do more. It's certainly a trait I've run into with a number of subs, a sense they're not giving enough, not being kinky enough, that they should find a way to go further. In some ways that's a beautiful quality (after all, the sub is wanting to give of themselves more, a trait that many of the best Christians demonstrate), but it can also set the sub up for a sense of depression and inadequacy. Perhaps you should talk with your master about this, and ask him to reassure you that he's basically satisfied with what you give him.
     
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  8. Knots

    Knots Member

    I second this. My girl (especially actually, as she can feel inadequate really easily and so needs reassuring), and all the subs I've played with have thrived off of a "need to please" which seems to naturally evolve into the feeling that you need to do more.
     
  9. RopeRanger

    RopeRanger Member

    Ah, I understand now. The beautiful thing is that everyone has a place in this lifestyle. It doesn't have to be hardcore blood and pain. As long as you are happy and your Dom is pleased then you are in the perfect place.
     
  10. Sally

    Sally Member

    I'm almost in tears. thank you so much. it's so good to know that I belong somewhere. I do not feel that I stand on the sidelines. and that I even might be right in how I feel.

    My Lord and my had a long conversation yesterday, after I had read what you had written. it began with us talking about our roles, as we have done many times before. and how strange it is that you need confirmation that the people you do not know to trust them you do know ... (have many theories about it, but it will be for another thread another day) but we ended up talking about everything. I was allowed to listen to him and support him with his thoughts, which made me so happy!

    he has gone now to help their parents with something, it's so good and so sad to miss him. I have never missed anyone like this before. I take the risk of sounding like a young cliché and say that when he is gone I realize how whole he makes me feel. I love my Lord.

    Thank you for your support. once again you have lifted my mind and saved the day.
     
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