The Blurry Line

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Pet, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. Pet

    Pet New Member

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    How do you doms know when to strain a boundary, to test the sub, to push her a bit but not to far? It must be so difficult to do with "minor" things like masturbation; something that most must see as a natural thing in BDSM.

    It's not. Not for me. I can do more or less anything else that's degrading and humiliating, in public or at home, but if I'm told to masturbate infront of someone it's a turn off so extreme as if someone told me to eat roadkill.
    I have no problems doing it when I'm alone. It's just doesn't work infront of others. Never has, never will.

    Is that a line you think should be tested? Something so small and insignificant? When I feel the way I do? :(
  2. GreyMac

    GreyMac Member

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    Pet, I'm no psychologist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and it's probable that at some point in the past you were made to feel that masturbation is a very shame-filled activity. Think it through and try to understand WHY you feel the way you do rather than focusing on WHAT and WHEN you feel it.

    When I was a kid, we were so poor that was all I had to play with. So I come from a very different background.

    Pushing a strong mental boundary, for most people, should be done gradually. Try a scene where your genital area is somewhat or completely hidden from view from your dominant and then they order you to masturbate. Doing it simply in their presence rather than under their direct gaze may be easier.

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    Good luck. Repost to let us know how it goes for you.
  3. Pet

    Pet New Member

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    I haven't though, and shame doesn't bother me. Like I mentioned, I've been put through public humiliation even when I didn't had clothes on. Being up for display a lot too.
    I've been orderd to do many things that made me want to put my head in the sand, embarassed beyond belief, but this is a different feeling.
    I don't get shy. I get numb. I completely lose any sense of joy or excitement. Then later on I get angry for being pushed to it again, followed by sad for the same reason, not to mention feeling betrayed.
  4. GreyMac

    GreyMac Member

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    Obviously my light response below was inappropriate. The problem lies more in the anger and resentment that you feel toward your Dom for pushing you where you don't want to go. Tell him/her. Communicate. Or not.

    I still think the advice stands; figure out why it bothers you so rather than what or when. Why do you go numb, as opposed to why they asked you to do it again when they know you find it distasteful. you're not going numb because they asked you to do it again. There's an underlying reason. Are you holding back to make a point?

    Some Doms simply have enough of a sadistic streak that they enjoy seeing you pushed to places they know you don't like to go. Your anger or distaste/disgust gives them more feedback than other reactions.

    Just like in the Vanilla world, every relationship is different. Some stay together out of love. Others, out of spite.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009

  5. Click here for more.
    I'd have to agree with greymac, you really need to analyze yourself and your feelings on this, nobody else can do it for you. Also, maybe work on desensitizing yourself to it, masturbate when your Dom is in the same apartment/house, then masturbate when he is standing outside the closed door, then masturbate with him in the room with him blindfolded, then try it with the lights off, then try one small candle in the dark, etc. Find out which one of these makes you freeze. Is it because you can't stand him watching? I have a hard time masturbating in front of Master, but mostly because I don't masturbate the "normal" way and I am afraid that how I do it is not sexy at all. Plus I shake and make unattractive faces. He is very good about positive reassurance which has helped. We did it with the lights off and Him next to me, that helped a lot.

    If you don't get this numb feeling with anything else humiliating or degrading, then my guess is your mental block is, like greymac said, to the masturbation itself. Maybe you were caught doing it as a child and got scolded for it? Go slow, but keep trying, and keep in mind always how pleased your Master/Mistress will be once you can break through that barrier, or if you never do, how pleased they will be for your diligent efforts. I often times pull on that motivation when things are hard for me to handle.
  6. Pet

    Pet New Member

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    Ah. Yes sorry if I failed to see my issue as something to joke about. Took your answer too seriously perhaps.

    Got to say that I'm a bit surprised over the answers. I didn't think it was that common to push subs to something that's a hard limit to him/her.
  7. GreyMac

    GreyMac Member

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    If it's a hard line, it's a hard, line. Stop the scene and Walk.

    BDSM is always about the mental as much as the physical, more so for most.

    If you've made it very clear that this is a hard line, (no hints, no passive-agressivness, say it plain and clear) Your dom is pushing this for a reason, whether it's a test or just sadism or some other reason is something you'll have to ask him.

    As a Dom, I push in small increments - testing and probing boundaries rather than kicking them down. Ultimately I want to take my sub by the leash and lead her out to the edge of her comfort zone, then dance around the boundary in such a way that she doesn't know we've crossed it until she looks back at it from the far side. but that's just my method about life and boundaries in general. As an example of that style - using humor to point out that the problem lies within as well as with your Dom. You were not made the butt of any jokes, the humor was contextual, and the advice I offered is just that - advice and I stand by it as reasonably sound advice which you under no obligation whatsoever to take. Simply restated, it is as follows:

    Analyize your motives. First, know thyself. Not only the fact that it makes you uncomfortable but why it does so. Then talk about it with your Dom. Communicate.

    It's obvious you have a good deal of pent-up hostility about it.
    I wish you luck with it.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009

  8. Click here for more.
    Very well put.

    As a Dom, I choose to 'push' in areas where subbie is already comfortable; or at least willing. Most of what "does it" for me is the fact that she is getting into it as much as I am. If it makes her eyes get big with that 'look', then it's full steam ahead.

    Grey is right about D/s being more mental (spiritual) that physical. Most think of hard limits as physical limitations. There is nothing that says hard limits can't address spiritual issues as well if that's what works for you. I don't see the point (or the pleasure) in pushing a sub where they truly don't want to go. That, to me, borders on meanness and severely strains the safe, sane, consensual mantra we all follow.

    There's so much to share, so much that can be done, so many possibilites for adventures it's hard to believe that this one thing can mean THAT much. If there are things I know subbie REALLY doesn't care for, they're basically ignored except for the odd 'idle threat' that's levied in a purely light-heated manner.

    What we all share and practice is a two way street. The sub's needs are just as important as the Dom's. If anything ruins an adventure for either of you, then it's something that should be avoided.

    The others have said it, I'll say it: Communicate. If the totality of your relationship is fulfilling (aside from this) I believe you can work it out. The journey is what's important here; not the destination.

    Wish you well.

  9. Click here for more.
    I was under the impression that this was a hurdle you wished to surpass and overcome, you never said it was a hard limit in your original post. If it's a hard limit then you clearly have already made up your mind about never overcoming it so why ask us the question? If it's a soft limit, thats a different story and my previous advice still applies. Either way I have to agree with greymac again, you definitely seem to have some pent up anger about this and that alone should be dealt with even if you never take this issue off your hard limit list. Best of luck!
  10. subspace

    subspace Member

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    Okay, you've got me curious. Care to share?
    I myself cant use my hands.
  11. GreyMac

    GreyMac Member

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    Thank you, Subspace, I wanted to ask that question, too....

    Face down, pillow?

    We ALL make screwed-up faces and noises :p
  12. TheBikeMan

    TheBikeMan New Member

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    And that, if you ask me, is the one of the best parts...
  13. Pet

    Pet New Member

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    1. Why I didn't say "hard limit" in the initial post.
    Well partly because I thought my description about my feelings and thoughts about it said it all. Perhaps also because I have never had to do it before. It's not something we use per se, but instead he asks me what I feel and think about something, I answer and we take it from there. Before it has always been "Noted, I understand" and we have NEVER done it again. This is the only issue that's an exception from that.

    And yes, I will put my foot down about this and tell it to him clear. But my initial question still lingers though; would you guys push your sub if she felt like this for such a "minor" matter? I'm aware of it's not like asking a sub to use her mouth as the doms personal toilet, eat puke or something more "extreme" of sorts. It's always easy to admit to doing the right thing, but would you?

    2. Why I still asked your opinion.
    Errr, huh? I can't ask your opinions about pushing subs concerning something she/he feels so strong against even if I don't want to cross my line?

    3. Pent up anger.
    Well I was very sad last night and couldn't recognise a joke if it jumped up and bit me. Besides that, I'm not sure it's anger over the masturbating itself as it is that I HATE to fail. To not be able to do a "good job". It really, really, really annoys the hell out of me. Perhaps it's all a combination.
  14. GreyMac

    GreyMac Member

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    I think several of us misunderstood the issue and the exact nature of the question, at least I know I did.

    No, as a Dom I would not push something I understood to be a hard limit. It does not matter if I consider that behavior to be 'minor'. It's not minor if it's a hard limit.

    You can ask any questions here that you like. The forum is composed of some very knowledgable people. Be prepared for answers you both like and dislike. Pick the good and ignore everthing else. Only you will know what's good. :)

    Sounds as though you feel better tonight, I'm glad.
    Good for you for speaking up.

    That can be a very difficult thing for some submissives, others, not so much....

  15. Click here for more.
    Well subspace, when I masturbate I am usually fully clothed, and I don't finger myself, I instead put my hand between my pants and my underwear and use my belt as leverage to push the ball of my hand down and forward on my clit. The pressure is what gets me off, and I have to have my legs straight. I shake a lot and struggle lol.

    But it is rather convenient for masturbating in unusual places, like the bus, or class...and best part, no mess since I never have to touch myself directly I don't need to wash my hands after. :D

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