submissive self doubt (or a blatant plea for someone to tell me I don't suck)

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by kissik, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. kissik

    kissik New Member

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    I am submissive, currently single, but ideally I'd like to have a long-term relationship with a dominant guy.

    So, I meet a guy, he's nice, laid back, he's looking for something long term, he's says he's a switch, but mostly dominant and doesn't think my lack of switchiness is a problem. We get on really well, spend an afternoon chatting and he kisses me before we go our separate ways. We chat online and he asks me a bit more about what I'm into etc, but I say I'd rather discuss it face to face.

    Meet up with him a second time, in what I think is going to be another hanging out and getting to know each other, thing. But, well, lets just say our hormones won and we end up in bed together.

    During this he asks several things of me. Most of which is fine, only at one point he tells me to do something that I'd consider a hard limit for me (we never managed to have the discussion on limits before we got to this point...), and I said no. Another thing is not a limit, but is not something I'm comfortable doing with a guy I just met and don't trust (and I say no again), and there is a third thing where we er, lack the equipment (he didn't bring the item, I don't own it).

    So after this we are chatting online and I say that I'd like to see him again, although I have slight concerns about whether our interests match up - due to the thing he likes that is a hard limit for me, and the switch thing. He says he doesn't think its a problem, says he had a great time etc. Then today, he is now expressing doubts about me, specifically:

    'You say No alot for a sub'

    This upsets me. I know it shouldn't, but I like this guy, and there is part of me (despite not knowing him that well) that really wants to submit to him and please him etc, and it feels like I 'failed'. I tell him its early days and I don't know if I can trust him yet. He says:

    'it's just not my idea of a sub'

    So, urgh. Im now bouncing between feeling shitty and like I'm not submissive enough, and on the other side thinking, 'no, wait, I've never even agreed to submit to him, and I barely know him.'

    I realise that a lot of the problem is the lack of talking/rushing into things, which I accept I should have handled differently (I will try to in the future). But knowing that is not really helping with the current self doubt and not knowing what to do next.
  2. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    To put it shortly, he's wrong. You're allowed to (supposed to) say no to things you're uncomfortable with, and him pressuring or shaming you about it is shitty.

    If you explain to him why it's a problem, and have a discussion about limits as equals and so on, it might work out. If he keeps with this attitude during it, don't bother.
  3. darknova42

    darknova42 Member

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    I don't think you did anything wrong in saying no to something that is a hard limit for you. Even the thing that's just something you don't do with someone you know that well- thats still a limit.

    As a dom I wouldn't even ask a sub to let me bind them if its our first meeting.

    I feel that someone who truely understands what bdsm is all about would know this. There are things that are just off limits if a certain level of trust isn't engendered.
  4. Switch2185

    Switch2185 New Member

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    The guy clearly doesn't deserve your submission. Sadly some doms don't realise they have to earn submission.
  5. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    It's important to realize that not all doms subscribe to the notion that submission begins with the sub. Some feel that it starts with the dom taking charge. He may be working on this assumption. So I don't think the fault is yours at all--I think he's not being clear about his assumptions and how he wants to interact with you.

    I would have an honest conversation with him about your limits and what you need to be able to trust him. If he won't listen or keeps insisting that you simply need to submit, then he's probably not a good match for you.
  6. kissik

    kissik New Member

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    Thanks all for replying. You all made me feel better :)

    I do know I'm allowed to say no, but that doesnt stop my inner sub perfectionist from feeling I shouldn't ;), so thanks for the reassurance on that one.

    I'm not sure I quite agree about 'earning' submission. Trust is earned, I guess, but I don't really see submission as some kind of treat I dole out. It's more that when I have that kind of rapport with someone I *want* to submit, but if the sensible adult bit of my brain won't shut up with the 'Im really not sure this is a good idea' stuff, it just doesn't work. But maybe I'm saying the same thing using different words.

    Anyway, I took the advice about talking to him (specifically taking his cue about me not being 'his idea of a sub', to ask exactly what his idea of a sub was). He said he was dissapointed not to do all the stuff he wanted and that he needed 'more variety' in sex. Don't really know how I feel about it.

    It doesn't help that the last dominant guy I went on a date with told me he didn't like 'games' and if I wasn't willing to become his tpe slave right then and there (after knowing him for all of two hours) he'd walk out becasue I wasn't submissive enough (I let him go). And the guy before that turned out not to be dominant at all, just a guy who was desperate to lose his virginity who thought a submissive girl would be easy.

    I don't know whether to give up on dating, or start writing a kinky version of Bridget Jones Diary.
  7. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    Just quit dating these people :) But write the book anyway, there's a huge demand for books like Fifty Shades (ugh) and books like Bridget Jones' Diary, so....
  8. kissik

    kissik New Member

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    Hee, yes you are perfectly right about not dating those particular people, but after a streak like that I do start to wonder whether its something I'm doing wrong...

    Don't even get me started on 50 shades. Thanks to that book, on online dating sites where I declare my interests I've been getting messages of the 'aw, did you just read 50 shades?' or 'are you looking for mr grey?'... as if my sexuality is something I just put on to be trendy.
  9. SubIA

    SubIA New Member

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    I know I'm very new to this forum, but there are a lot of men out there who THINK they are Dominants when in fact they are just manipulative users.

    In my opinion, part of the dance (rather than use the word 'game') people do when dating is getting to know what the other person likes or doesn't like in the bedroom. You can talk, IM and email about it until your fingers are numb and your face turns blue, but until you actually get naked nd try to do things with each other, you just don't know.

    It sounds like you and this guy need to get to know each other better in and out of the bedroom. Would it be so very awful to take some time nd just explore each others bodies without a D/s slant to it.

    And on the peevish side, you're reminding me why I don't date much!
  10. Highspeaker

    Highspeaker New Member

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    I wouldn't be worried at all. First of all, "you are saying no a lot for A sub" expresses quite well his knowledge about this world. WHICH sub?? yours?? anyone's sub?? ...
    Don't know if you understad me (sorry for my english).

    The point is that Dom and sub must, first of all, know each other well before starting the relationship, with no reproach, cause what is bad for me is probably pefect for any other. So, until he is your Dom and he really knows what is he saying, he should not tell you if you are a sub or you aren't. Then, after knowing each other, decide if they match. And after all, start a new relationship with the same problems , and as hard as any other relationship, quite similar solutions and, if everything works fine, changes that will bring improvements to that relationship.

    So, if this guy knows the second day that you are saying no a lot, without knowing exactly why, without knowing if those limits could become a goal for both of us (this happens a lot) and without knowing many other things, just run fast and don't look back.

    Don't forget he is supposed to be a switch, I mean, he should know the issues of a beginning from both sides of the table and don't seem to be very concerned about knowing the sub inside you at all.

    Don't be worried, say no as many times as you need to feel confortable, save and confident with the guy you want to be your next Dom. And changes will come if they have to.

    Is a hard way, many times "trial and error", but think this is a relationship of Domination and SUBMISSION. Along the relationship things should change, Dom should teach the sub how to behave according with his tastes and sub should learn according to her limits. This is not an obligued relationship but a chosen one, and must be with the right person.

    Good luck ;)
  11. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    It gets tiresome sorting through the fakers and losers to find the real kinksters. As the saying goes, "you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince". But if being submissive is important to you, don't give up. Put up ads on dating sites that are specific about what you want and what your basic limits are, and be clear that you want a dom who will get to know you and build trust before demanding that you obey. A good profile will help you weed out some of the chaff, but you're still gonna run into guys who don't understand what being dominant is about or who lie about what they want or can do.

    I guarantee you that there are genuine doms out there like that--I'm one (but sadly, I play for the other team). Genuine, experienced doms understand that they have to demonstrate trustworthiness before they get what they want. As one boy recently put it to me, they command respect rather than demand respect. Some genuine but inexperienced doms may be misled by the porn into thinking they need to be demanding, so don't totally write off a guy who makes a demand or two; just do what you did in this case and explain that you need to feel more trust.

    By the way, someone already wrote the kinky BJD, it's called Bitchy Jones' Diary; it's a feminist take on being a domme.
  12. kissik

    kissik New Member

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    The kissing frogs thing is an analogy I do try keep in mind.

    Because of the part of the world I live in I haven't found kinky dating sites particularly useful (there just don't seem to be that many people local to me using them, and those that do seem just to be looking for play, not relationships). I mostly use vanilla dating sites with a couple of reasonably blantant, but not very specific references to my submissive D/s interests. I'm a bit circumspect about having my specific kinks in a profile with my picture on, I don't want it to impact on my professional life.

    I am however, getting increasingly better at vetting guys once I start chatting to them, (each disasterous dating experience adds a new thing to my list of things to ask guys before meeting them!) so online dating is kind of a learning process.

    I had a flick through the Bitchy Jones' Diary blog archives, interesting stuff and I think I'm developing a crush on her, so thanks for that :)
  13. 9DVD6HD8

    9DVD6HD8 New Member

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    Don't even get me started on 50 shades. Thanks to that book, on online dating sites where I declare my interests I've been getting messages of the 'aw, did you just read 50 shades?' or 'are you looking for mr grey?'... as if my sexuality is something I just put on to be trendy.
  14. RopeRanger

    RopeRanger Member

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    SubIA, I have heard this from my female friends so many times that I have lost count. It appears that many of the guys using the data sites and Craigslist are simply jackasses that don't understand how to interact with people as adults let alone interact with a sub. I very much appreciate that you consider the process a dance as that is exactly how I view the entire process. It's a game to those other guys and that's why they "play" people.

    This happens for us guys too. I've met many potential partner who are just not genuine. I equate that to dancing with someone who steps on your toes. It happens, you just need to select another partner.
  15. Zepoll

    Zepoll New Member

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    Kissing frogs is a good analogy. I call it panning for gold. You have to sift through a lot of crap to find one little nugget of gold. And often times, miners will go for days, weeks, months and never find a thing.

    Another way of looking at is like shopping for clothes. When shopping for clothes you first have to go to a store that is likely to have something you like, then find your section, then thumb through the hangers, then find something that "looks" good, then check the price tag, then go and try it it on. There are a lot of "filters" we have to go through when looking for a item of clothing before we find one that we actually will take home. And after you get it home it might shrink!! :) Or you may spend a whole day shopping and not find a thing. It's all part of the process.

    But there is nothing wrong with you. You are a puzzle piece like the rest of us. This guy just wasn't the puzzle piece that matches up to you.

    Maybe in your next ad. Or in your first email exchange list out the "Hiring Process". Explain that you will have no more than 3 dates/meetings before any shred of clothing comes off. And also, if you want to discuss D/s involvement then you must have a "Board Meeting" where both parties comes to the meeting with, LITERALLY, a list of Wants and Limits. Where both parties list off their favorite things and a list of hard limits where you can discuss, and measure out, whether you're going to be right for each other.

    The benefit to this approach is that, for one: you can eliminate all the dweebs. Because jerks like this guy won't have the patience to go through this "process". A mature Dom, will understand the process.. probably will even appreciate it.

    The other benefit is... think of how great of a relationship you could have if you met someone that was excited about the process, and matched up well after the board meeting. Then you could really give in and trust and dive deep and be very, VERY happy.

    The D/s life is new to me and my girlfriend. We're exploring and love it so far. One of my recent discoveries is how really intimate the whole relationship is. The closeness.

    Ever been too, or seen, one of those work place exercises where they have a coworker stand up and fall backward and the coworkers catch them? It's about building trust and as a result creating a better (working) relationship. Well to me.. the D/s life is the same thing. It's all about trust and trust leads to intimacy.

    Lastly... Maybe consider hosting a speed dating for Dom's and Subs at a local coffee shop. Get 15 Dom's and 15 Subs and have them all quickly go through a min board meeting of their own. Have them all show up with 5 Wants and 5 Limits. They're favorite utensil. Favorite positions or knots. Each couple matches up for 2 minute interviews and then afterwards people can write down if they'd like to meet with someone else. You get their information to the person that they want to meet and that person can decide if they want to get together again or not.

    At least you'd get through 15 people super fast.

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