Sadism and BDSM, a paradox?

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by MissPrissy, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy New Member

    Hi everyone, I'm a little curious regarding sadism ...

    If "sadism" means someone who enjoys inflicting pain on someone else, then how can this person enjoy herself if the submissive she is hurting is a masochist?

    If the definition of sadism is that you enjoy hurting someone, aren't you then doing the opposite if you're giving them pleasure? Isn't that a paradox?

    Just to be clear, I believe in sane, safe and consensual, but this issue has always puzzled me somewhat.
     
  2. nix

    nix Guest

    I gotta say I agree and have wondered about this in the past. For my partner (sadist) and me (masochist) though, it's the fact that I'm experiencing pain, whether I like it or not, that turns her on.
     
  3. subspace

    subspace Member

    Very interesting to think about. I think for for most of us subs/masochists that although we do receive pleasure from pain there is still pain involved and that is where the sadist is satisfied. The sadist/Dom is working hard to push limits of pain tolerance both mental and physical. It is not always pleasurable, a lot of time it is very painful and scary and emotionally draining to be involved in an sm relationship so I think there is plenty of pain to satisfy the sadist.
    On the other hand I think the sm relationship works so well for the sadist because it gives the sadist an 'outlet' for their needs of inflicting pain on someone without the reprocutions of attempting this with what would be an unwilling victim.
     
  4. pyroaquatic

    pyroaquatic Member

    I still feel pain when it is inflicted. It is an internal mechanism that converts it to pleasure. The pain is not lost, just changed.
     
  5. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy New Member

    So what the sadist really wishes (the best fantasy of the sadist) is to have a real slave, an unwilling slave that doesn't like any pain and that experiences real torture -- even though for everyone sane that stays only a fantasy, and in reality only willing slaves are used?
     
  6. Sparrow69

    Sparrow69 Moderator

    As a sadist, a true sadist, I can say no. Every sadist wishes to bring out the machochist in people. to produce so much superficial pain that the nerve endings become confused, and the receptors that register pain, begin to register it as pleasure. What you're confusing with sadist, is a sociopath, who doesnt care about others feelings.
    While most Sociopaths do tend to be sadistic, its to fulfill their own needs, and is not a requirement to be a sadist. I enjoy inflicting pain. I enjoy it more if I can get the victim to enjoy it.
     
  7. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy New Member

    This is where I feel there is a paradox, it is great that you like giving others pleasure, but I just can't see how this can be defined as giving them pain?

    It seems to me that the real definition of "sadist" is someone who likes to give real pain, with a victim that dislikes it, but that in BDSM a sadist means someone who does what you described -- give pleasure.
     
  8. I would say thats about right.
    . . . Miss Prissy. . . That's an interesting name. :)
     
  9. Sparrow69

    Sparrow69 Moderator

    and that is where you are wrong. As i said, your confusing a sociopath with a sadist.

    Sociopath = not caring how others feel
    Sadist = causes pain to produce pleasure

    Get it right.

    I couldn't agree more. It's being looked into to see if its just a coincidence or a blatant attempt at disrespect and a rules violation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  10. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy New Member

    I didn't mean any disrespect, I thought it would be an interesting discussion.
     
  11. subspace

    subspace Member

    MissPrissy it is a very interesting discussion, but as usual Sparrow has done a great job of taking something that seems complex and confusing and broken it down to help us understand it better. You and Sparrow are defining the word differently.
     
  12. Sparrow69

    Sparrow69 Moderator

    I wasn't referring to the discussion being disrespectful, I was referring to the name. There was an issue a while back with a "prissy" who is no longer allowed here.

    Subspace is correct. It's the definition that seems to be off. As I said, you were looking at Sadist incorrectly, and making the common misconception that all sadists are Sociopaths, which is simply not the case.

    I am a sadist both in and out of the BDSM community, even though I live a 24/7 BDSM life. However I still feel pity for children who step on landmines in wor torn countries, a sociopath would not.
     
  13. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy New Member

    Oh, I see .. thanks for letting me know, I was worried that this type of discussion was forbidden or something. :)
    I guess I could change my name if I have to?

    But as for the sadist definition, I think psychology uses a definition of sadist more in the sociopath direction, while BDSM uses the same word "sadist" to mean a person who cares about the one she causes pain to, and where the pain caused is not necessarily felt as pain, but a combination of both pain and pleasure. Does that make sense?

    I've heard a lot of people use the term "sadist" to describe someone really cruel, and if the general public thinks the 'S' in BDSM is the same type of cruelty then that's sad.
     
  14. Sparrow69

    Sparrow69 Moderator

    Don't get it wrong, I am EXTREMELY cruel. Read some of my previous posts, especially in regards to punishments. Both Definitions Are correct...

    By definition:

    sa⋅dism   /ˈseɪdɪzəm, ˈsædɪz-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sey-diz-uhm, sad-iz-] Show IPA
    –noun
    1. Psychiatry. sexual gratification gained through causing pain or degradation to others. Compare masochism.
    2. any enjoyment in being cruel.
    3. extreme cruelty.

    [After Comte Donatien Alphonse François de Sade.] sa'dist n., sa·dis'tic (sə-dĭs'tĭk) adj., sa·dis'ti·cal·ly adv.

    mas⋅och⋅ism   /ˈmæsəˌkɪzəm, ˈmæz-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mas-uh-kiz-uhm, maz-] Show IPA
    –noun
    1. Psychiatry. the condition in which sexual gratification depends on suffering, physical pain, and humiliation.
    2. gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.
    3. the act of turning one's destructive tendencies inward or upon oneself.
    4. the tendency to find pleasure in self-denial, submissiveness, etc.

    BDSM = Bondage and Dicipline Sadomasochism How is that Sad? the "S" does stand for Sadism.... Just because some practice it to a stronger degree then others doesn't mean any are wrong. The BDSM community is not one of judgments, rather it is one of acceptance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  15. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy New Member

    I meant that the general public judges the BDSM community without realizing what it is about, perhaps partly because 'sadism' is somewhat ambiguous?
     

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