Replacing toys

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by sebastian, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    No one on the list seems to be talking, so I'll just throw out a question I've thought a bit about lately.

    Twice in the past couple of months, when I've been playing, subs have broken toys. In both cases, it was a wrist shackle (to be specific, in both cases they broke the D-ring connecting the shackle to a rope). There's no cheap way to fix it--the shackle basically has to be replaced.

    So what I'm wondering is, does a sub have a responsibility to offer to help pay to replace a broken toy? On the one hand, it's not the sub's toy, it's mine. Multiple subs have used it, so it was likely the accumulated wear that broke it. On the other hand, the sub was having a lot of fun and got a little carried away with his struggles. If I can't replace it, neither that sub nor any future sub will have that fun. And expecting the Dom to pay for it puts a lot of financial burden on the Dom.

    So what do people think? In a casual play situation, if a toy breaks, ought the sub offer to cintribulate to replacing it? Is failing to offer to pay a breach of etiquette?
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  2. AnErieGuy

    AnErieGuy Member

    I think as the provider of location, situation, and exploitation(of a sub's qualities :p) then yes, you are expected(Note the word usage) to buy and replace broken items. The better idea though, is that, saying I was a sub to you and in this situation, I would at the very least offer SOME compensation for the item in question. Though, in the case that you are buying what appears to be very cheap(not in price) bondage equipment, maybe you should find other sources, far as I know metal doesn't break easily and leather can be maintained to the point where it is REALLY hard to tear, though, you might not be maintaining it properly, which is understandable. Granted, I've never even messed with cuffs outside of my Dad's own(he's a cop) so I say this with no foreknowledge on the topic other than the concept.
  3. RenamonX

    RenamonX New Member

    Personally Id see it as the doms responsibility. However...thats in my position, where my sub/pet is my gf as well, so basically I bought them for her as presents so id happily replace them. If your a dom with several subs and its due to just wear and tear, then dom, but if its due to some overuse by a specific sub I would say either the sub would replace or, or perhaps split he difference. I guess it just depends on the situation. Perhaps buying another one could be incorporated into a punishment or somesuch, paying for toys/restraints/etc used to punish them might be a nice way of humiliation hehe ^^
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  4. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Erie, the cuffs in question were $50 leather cuffs from Strict Leather. In both cases the D-ring, which was 1/8th inch, snapped clean in half with no warning. They might have been defective D-rings, but they certainly looked solid.

    I guess the issue I see is the subs are getting the benefit of the toys I choose to buy, but paying none of the cost, which seems a little imbalanced.
  5. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

    Hey Seb -
    Thanks for starting the thread. I thought we freaked out that summer was over.

    As far as your question goes, there's only one way for me to see it.....

    The sub cannot be responsible for under-estimations regarding their restraints.

    As the Dom/me-s, we have a responsibility for restraining our toys so that they can feel helpless. If they break out, how is that their problem, or mistake? (even in casual play)
    And if you tell them that they are responsible for breaking the tools you use to restrain them, how can they feel truly helpless?

    I guess you could just tell them that if they break your cuffs they will be punished, but I wouldn't take it any further than that.

    Our goal is to make them feel that they "cannot" escape, not that they "should not" escape. Making them think about that responsibility would change some of the flavor of the scene for both of you. That's gotta be worth more than 50 bucks.

    I use the same sort of cuffs a lot in play, because it takes less time, I enjoy making the toy put them on in front of me, and they provide for quick release.
    I also use the D-ring as the anchor for the ropes that further restrain her.

    I hadn't even considered that something like that might snap, so I'm glad you mentioned it, but let's take this question to the extreme level.......

    What if you used your equipment (any that's necessary) to bind your sub and hang him upside down from the cieling. Let's say that a critical piece of your restraint system, like, oh, let's say, the anchor that is he is hanging from..... fails, breaks, snaps, etc.....

    Will you charge him for the part that broke, and maybe charge him to clean up all that blood that got on your floor?

    I know this is an extreme example, but sometimes I take it that far to test the principle

    By the way...... have you tried looking up a saddle shop, or something of the sort to fix your cuff? It sounds like the leather wasn't damaged, just the D-ring snapped. A saddle shop, or even a shoe repair (with a heavy duty stitcher) could pull the stitches, replace the D-ring, and put it back together. If you supply the D-ring (may as well do both) of the proper strength it shouldn't cost more than 30 or 40 and you'll have an even stronger set of cuffs. A real saddle shop can even replace rivets.
    If not, I think there are leather shops here in chicago that you could send them to for a quick fix. I'll ask around for you.

    Let me know if you fix or just replace. I guess when dealing with guys and pain play you need some heavy duty stuff, and reinforcements (ha ha).

    Hope this helps.
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  6. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    L8: a useful way to look at the issue.

    I'm torn about the cuffs. I want good reliable cuffs (among other things, I don't want the boy getting hurt if something happens). I would prefer to repair them and keep my investment, but repairing them is likely to cost close to what they cost new. So I'm conflicted.
  7. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

    I've already sent an inquiry to Black Market Leather (here) to see if they are willing and to get an initial estimate. I'll let you know when they get back to me.
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  8. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

    Wow... that was fast.
    I'm pretty sure Monica is the owner.

    Here's her reply

    Monica <> to

    Wow - How does a D-Ring break? That's kinda scary. ;o)
    I'd have to see a photo of the cuff to know what's involved; am not familiar with their stuff -- but am also curious why they won't fix it.
    If it appears to be a simple job, sure -- I can do it pretty cheap; have to see it first via photo, please. :)


    If you like - follow up

    Let me know what happens
  9. Ceilidh

    Ceilidh Member

    Seb, perhaps I can help.

    (Messages Seb)
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  10. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    L8: Thanks!
    Ceilidh: Thanks as well!
  11. Ceilidh

    Ceilidh Member

    you are welcome seb. it is the least i can try to do since you are always so helpful with your knowledge.
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  12. SubAnna

    SubAnna Member

    Wait - they broke the actual D-ring? Like a metal one? Either im misunderstanding something or your subs are strooooong :p I mean recently I was tied up in leather cuffs with a D-ring that was then fastened to a carbine hook at the end of a chain-type-of-thing.. Not that I tried to break it, but I got a sense that I was tied up real good.
    On the actual topic, I think it is only fair to split costs in a BDSM relationship. But if you have different subs, rather than one constant partner, and it was due to wear I'd say it was your responsibility. Unless ofc. the sub willfully broke your toys, but that would take some damn nerve, and I dont really see why a sub would do that anyways.
    Ofc. that would leave you with a lot of expenses, but then on the other hand, I think it would be fair for you to ask the subs to bring, for instance, their own dildos (a lot of ppl. dont like sharing that anyways), clothing articles or vibrators etc. But it is hard question to answer, cause I think it depends on the relationship/situation and there are so many different versions :)

    On a different note - I haven't posted for soo long. It is nice to be back again, such a great forum :)
  13. PunishKatt

    PunishKatt New Member

    Hi Seb, I just joined this forum with my sub, I was busy reading old threads or I would have posted this sooner.
    I’m not sure where in WI you live, but you most likely have heard of, or are possibly a frequent visitor to a store called “The Lions Den??†I lived in WI for a long time and as far as I can remember it’s probably one of the most popular adult stores in the state. It’s been a few years since I have been anywhere near WI but The Lions Den hopefully still sells tons and of restraints. They also have a 5 year guarantee on their branded leather cuffs, or they used to. The way I see it, after 5 years cuffs should probably be replaced anyway. Especially leather ones used on multiple people because you can only clean and oil them so much before they wear from contact.

    Anyway to answer your question, I would say you are completely responsible for the cost of everything you use on any sub. If the sub is under your training then they are already giving you everything they have (mind, body, spirit, will). In my book and that is worth more than money any day. You must have been doing a hell of a job to get 2 subs to snap cuffs. Take it as a compliment to your skills and see if The Lions Den still offers that warranty.

    The Lions Den
    Exit 113 off Hwy 41,
    1650 Planeview Dr.
    Oshkosh - (920) 235-9040
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  14. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Actually, I'm not familiar with the Lion's Den. I'll look for it. Thanks for the advice.
  15. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    And yes, in both cases, it was a D-ring that snapped. It happened several months apart with both of a pair of shackles (the D-ring on one broke and then the D-ring on the other). Either they weren't real D-rings (by which I mean that the part of the ring that was under the leather strap wasn't actually closed) or they were just a defective batch of D-rings. The Strict Leather website offers no contact information unless you're ordering from them, so I have no way to contact them and ask them to repair the shackle. The conclusion I've come to is that Strict Leather is not really worth doing business with.

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