Question of Bondage Role Confusion

Gothula · Jul 29, 2012

My partner likes to be tied down and is very submissive before and during the process of being tied up or released, but while he's bound, he's in charge. He tells me what to do and how to do it.

We both enjoy this, but being very new to this activity, we've been trying to learn more about it to expand both our understanding and our playlist - so to speak. While we get that there's no "right" way beyond safe and consensual, we were hoping to find out more about Dominates who like being immobile while they give orders and Submissives who like this dynamic.

Is this a more common thing that we've been lead to believe?

Thank you for your attention.

Roland · Jul 29, 2012

Welcome to the forum, Gothula. I just joined here a week ago but I will give you my thoughts, for what they are worth. Other, more experienced people are sure to respond later.

What you describe is interesting to me in that there are numerous back and forth power transfers within the same play session. From all that I have read in BDSM literature and stories, that appears to be a very unusual dynamic in this culture. Someone, at a BDSM party for example, may play multiple roles in multiple sessions based on the mutual chemistry between them and their partner, but I have never heard of switching in-session. However, it clearly makes the both of you happy, and if I am right about it being unusual, maybe you are pioneers

sebastian · Jul 29, 2012

There are two obvious 'templates' for what might be happening here. 1) He might be topping from the bottom. Some subs are not good at letting go of control, and want to dictate what gets done to them. This can be extremely frustrating to a dom, because the dom gets used as a sort of living sex toy or just a character in the sub's fantasies. This can also happen if the sub is more strong-willed than the dom is. However, you sound content to let the bottom be in control here, so this scenario seems unlikely.

2) Your partner is more of a dom than a sub. This is where the distinction between a sub and a bottom and between a dom and a top comes in. A top is the doer of the action and a bottom is a recipient of an action, while a dom is the one in charge in play and the sub is the one who obeys orders. Some dome enjoy certain facets of bottoming. I like having my tits tortured; some doms enjoy getting fucked. So some doms order their subs to torture them, tie them up, fuck them, etc. The unusual thing here is that your partner enjoys being submissive until then. Do you mean that you are genuinely in charge up until the ropes are on? For example, do you get to order him around until you decide to tie him up? Or is it understood that things start with you tying him up?

If you're genuinely in charge unless and until you tie him up, then I'd say you're both switches. It's definitely unusual for two switches to work together that easily and fluidly, but it works for you, congratulations on having found such a good match!

L8NightQ · Jul 31, 2012

This is going to be interesting.

Please post about this as things develop, as I'm sure they will (develop).

Welcome.

Gothula · Aug 1, 2012

Roland:
I think we're reading the same literature. I've found mention of switching, but everything I find refers to a complete shift from one role to the other. I've never found anything with a middle ground.

Sebastian:
1) I agree that he's not "topping from the bottom." I don't feel frustrated by his orders. It's relaxing for me to let his voice lead me, guide me to do the things he wants me to do.

2)Before I tie him up, we're equals. Our play doesn't start until I open the cuff box, then he just sits on the bed and waits for me to get everything out. I wrap the pads and lock the cuffs. We don't generally speak until his arms and legs are both cuffed and linked by a rope to the bed rails. Then he tells me what to do for him or myself, but I'm the one who decides when it's time to untie him. That started the second time we played because he wanted to stay bound, but I could tell that it was affecting the circulation and untied him. Now it's part of our ritual. I'm not in charge really. He wants to be cuffed - he asks me to do that. I'm not sure how well that answers your questions.

We did try tying me up once, but it went poorly. While I was tied, he kept asking "Is this what you want? Do you like this? Do you want me to do this next?" He felt awkward - not in charge, and I felt frustrated by his uncertainty. Sexually, he is the dominate one in our relationship - tied up or not. I prefer the submissive role.

Outside the bedroom, our power relationship is relatively equal; we work together, and our roles there as well as our personalities keep a balance in our relationship. Tying him up came as one of those "silly" fantasies that - as that first night progressed - we discovered to be something much more evocative and fulfilling.

L8NightQ:
Thank you for the welcome.

sebastian · Aug 1, 2012

Well, I haven't heard of a dynamic like the one you two have, but that doesn't mean anything. If it works for you, great!

stanley_jeffries · Aug 1, 2012

Hi Gothula,
Here's a thought. Next time you play, wait until he is tied up and then gag him.

Now you get to be verbally in charge

Try replaying things he asked you to do in previous sessions, for example. Lean close to his ear and whisper...

"I'm sure you want me to pinch your nipple right now, don't you? You'd love that...but what makes you think you've earned it?"

It would be even more intense to blindfold him too. It sounds like you've already established trust and consent with each other, so I think you need to gently explore his boundaries.

A good way to do this is to describe what you are going to do to him...and give him the opportunity to safeword out of the scene if he finds this unacceptable.

Has he been gagged before? Have you agreed a "safe gesture" if he can't use a safeword?

If you decide to follow my advice, I would suggest you only keep this up for a few minutes, and then remove the gag to see how he reacts. You can always put it back.

Cheers,
Stanley

L8NightQ · Aug 1, 2012

gothula -

Have you considered, being new to this, that your partner is trying to make you fit a fantasy, but needs things to go "just so"?
I've got another take on this, and could be totally off base, but many of us, Dom or Sub, start really early with waking dreams that work into our masturbation practices. I think you have it right in saying that he is submissive (now), but controlling. In my opinion, it's very possible that he's a Dom who hasn't let himself accept it.
....By the way, I will be using the terms Dom and sub, but these could just as easily be Top and bottom.

Regarding Seb's comments - I think both scenarios could be true, and likely are.
Everything I've read from you says that his masturbation fantasies have been with him as the sub, but this is typical of early Doms too. Many with more experience than me have said that most good Doms have a lot of sub in them too. A loving Dominant may have huge subconscious reservations about acting out on their instincts for fear of harming or degrading their partner, especially if their working fantasy involves pain stimulation and humiliation. They get that whisper in their ear, something like.."Oh God. How could I ever do that to her!".

I'd like you to consider a working session, or workshop, if you haven't before. In these sessions you enter with eyes open to each other, try various ties, punishments, and stimulation on each other with working comments from each on how it feels and if it's preferred. This also involves some honest talk about your fantasies and your real desires. Think of it as a judgement free zone. Of course you both have to be ready to really hear each other and not freak out. The nice thing is that it doesn't all have to come out in one session. Typically it takes many.

In a relationship where you start out already in love, this really helps. When you described how he tops you, with all the questions, it sounds like he is applying his mentality to you and wants it to be just how you like it (just like him), and that if it's not right it's a turn off. He seems to also be aware that his pain points are different than yours. Many just assume that if they can take it ,so can you. That doesn't always work out, so good for both of you.

I've written about this before. If any of this applies, take a look at these other posts below. I hope this gets you closer to what you want.

SJ's comments are on point, but I'm guessing it's too early to pull that off this early, but you will eventually. Even if her turns out to be a Dom, I think he'll always be a switch.

The concept of topping from below is pretty common, but usually starts later in the relationship. Most loving dominants get their stimulation from the helplessness, exposure, and orgasms their partner experiences at their hands. In the early stages of these relationships however, the dominant partner focuses on their own pleasure from the visual and tactile experience of the scene. Invariably this changes to where most of the Dominant's energy put into the sub, to absorb their feedback. Once people reach this higher level of sexuality they rarely go back..... but I think I've changed the subject

Suffice to say - Each of you are your own book. You just have to learn how to read each other. Use the work sessions on each other. You may find over time that he's got a lot of Dom in him.

Hope this helps.

Here are some other threads with more on work sessions or workshops.

http://www.smplace.com/forum/155151-i-seriously-need-some-help.html
http://www.smplace.com/forum/12581-my-master-thinks-im-too-controlling.html
http://www.smplace.com/forum/548724-bdsm-help-how-do-i-experiment-with-a-novice-subs-threshold.html

Question of Bondage Role Confusion

Gothula

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Roland

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sebastian

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L8NightQ

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Gothula

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sebastian

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stanley_jeffries

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L8NightQ

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