Paypal, Publishers, and Erotic Fiction

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Smallest, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    I don't know how many of you know this already, but paypal banned a ton of different kinds of erotic fiction recently. Users of Bookstrand were sent an email including

    And from a call to paypal's representatives:
    So yeah, everyone in the self publishing world's pissed off about that, I'm curious what your thoughts on the BDSM and pseudo-incest (since DLG is popular among us) are.

    Now, completely aside from that, as I found this months and months ago, is a certain small publisher called Whisper. I have nothing against publishers having limits on their submissions, but theirs just seem ridiculous to me.

    I think I might have brought this up before, but if I did, I can't figure out where/when, and I probably didn't in this much detail. I did rant about it to Tall and possibly Knots, for sure.

    Okay, cool, right? This then continues on...

    I was jut going to copy the most pertinent (pert'nant) parts, but I found some of this sort of amusing. No garden tools? So I can't have them penetrated by hedge clippers? But I'm sure there are some good situations wherein non-toy toys could be used, and I understand that it's a hope of not giving the readers ideas.

    The rape rule is standard and good (and one we hold here). But under 21 confuses me. I didn't know there was anywhere in the States where 21 was the age of consent. Outside of Romeo and Juliet clauses, it's 16 here, at least, but the age to be depicted in porn is 18, and I thought that was the same over there? But I'm no expert, so oh well.

    But onto the BDSM- It bothers me more than what they ban, the way they word it. They're just shy of ridiculing people who would submit pony play stories. We've had enough talks here to know why breath play would be banned, but impact play, too? "Any type of physical abuse"? They're not only contradicting themselves and banning many elements of BDSM (I think most of what's left is unenforced power exchange), but they're again blurring the line of abuse and making a worse reputation for fetish... not to mention making 'horse play' a joke for any vanilla writers reading their submissions.

    The roleplay part bothers and confuses me. They haven't got a ban on incest anyway, but there's a ban on incest play (though I'm sure whoever submits some incest will be creating a new rule). But seriously, no DLG, or schoolgirl, or whatever else play seems ridiculous, seeing as it's already been defined as roleplay and nothing else.

    I don't know. I find this all kinds of annoying.
  2. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    As a small update, Andre showed me a very new publisher that's starting to fill the gap left by paypal. I encourage people to check them out, since even if you aren't interested in any of the too 'edgy' topics, I'd rather support one of the uncensored publishers.

    They are aptly named No Boundaries Press.

    Also they're taking submissions ;)
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  3. Knots

    Knots Member

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    *sigh* I find this all rather annoying too.

    In UK, 16 legal age and 18 age of being depicted in porn.

    P.S. You did discuss with me

    P.P.S. I may give a longer reply later.
  4. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    In the states and Canada, age of consent varies by region, but I'm pretty sure age to be in porn is stable because of how porn is distributed... but I can't be sure.
  5. Knots

    Knots Member

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    It's irrelevant anyway. They aren't thinking in terms of "Hmm, what's legal all around the world, and how can we support the legislation in some foreign country which we do 0.003% of our trade with...", they're thinking in terms of "Hmm, we need to cater to the majority of our customer's prejudices so it seems acceptable to them" and making a political statement on that basis to maintain what they deem most "profitable image".

    EDIT: I don't have a source, this is my belief. Nor do I apply this belief to Paypal, as they're in a different economic position.
  6. Kor

    Kor Member

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    The interesting thing is, much of the "straight" romance that red reads is, by the standards I grew up with, pornography. Not just explicit descriptions of intercourse, but strong DS and mild S&M as well.

    The only difference I can see between those and "real" porn is that porn is a stripped-down version of the same thing; they just don't bother with the "relationship" and plot involvements stuff.
  7. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    Two wins here. Paypal has retracted their rules, now it is just a ban on incest, bestiality, pedophilia, and in-depth rape.

    The other is that I emailed Whispers (including some screencaps of discussions about it and a link to a blog post) and got this reply:

  8. pupkq

    pupkq New Member

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    let's curse paypal

    i don't know if sayingthiscan be useful but i have dealt with paypal in the past and it has always been a night mare. They purposly keep their terms obscur so they can adjust it whatever way they want to get a hold of you.
    being off them is the best.
  9. Knots

    Knots Member

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  10. bakerboy

    bakerboy Member

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    Paypal operators are the Inquistors of the 21 century :(

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