Opening Our Marriage

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Michelle28, Aug 17, 2010.

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  1. Michelle28

    Michelle28 New Member

    Let me start by saying that I love my husband dearly and in no way want to hurt him. I would like to open our marriage, but I do not know how to bring up this topic without hurting him. I don't want him to feel that I love him any less or that I am not happy with our marriage and sex life. I'm very happy with him, but there are 'needs' of mine that he cannot meet.

    I am a submissive and have been all my life. However, I was ashamed of my desires and tried to push them away. I married very young and it wasn't until after I was married that I realized how deeply I need someone to submit to. I'm also pretty heavy into S/M. I can do ok without it for a time, but after a while the urge is just too strong to deny. It's like a drug.

    I've discussed this all with my husband and he has done a good job trying to give me what I need in the physical sense. He can Top a bit in the bedroom, has roughened things up and I love it. He enjoys some of it, but much of what I love the most he only does to make me happy, it does nothing for him. I will admit that I haven't told him the extent of my kinks, but this is only because he reacted badly to things that weren't nearly as extreme as the ones I've kept secret.

    I've tried explaining my need to be submissive, and although he had a hard time wrapping his head around it, he attempted to take up the Dom role. It ended up turning out pretty badly. Some people are Doms, some aren't - it's not something you can force and it just isn't him.

    So here I am, desperate to explore, to go to munches, to play, everything, yet I'm married. He has his own preferences in the bedroom as well, and I just don't fit with them either. We can find a happy middle for the both of us, but at the end of the day, we're both left curious and a tad unsatisfied. How can I suggest an open marriage without offending him?

    P.S.
    I'm not very good at explaining all this. I don't want an open marriage so I can go sleep around with other men - that's not what is driving me. The desire to have someone to submit to, the desire to explore is what is driving me. And I'd like to go to a munch without being ostrasized for being there without my husband's knowledge. Hope that makes sense.
     
  2. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    I think you just need to have a talk about it there is no way around,it will either hurt his filling or not
    OK I need you to answer will you have sexual relationship with the dom? or will it be non sexual only BDSM?
    What I suggest is to pick BDSM without sex and offer him to directly supervise you
    open relationship is good for him as well so he can find partners to satisfy him
    We me and my girlfriend are currently in open relationship well it's actually only me that sleeps with other women but she's good with it (I don't mind her staying with other man but she's satisfied with me) it may sound like bragging I'm sorry
    The back up plan
    if he refuses to let you go tell him that you simply are not satisfied(sexually) with him tell bout your kinks and tell him to try and dominate you so you will both be happy it will be fake but we have to love the life the way it is no one is fully satisfied :)
     
  3. Michelle28

    Michelle28 New Member

    To answer you're question, I don't have the desire to sleep with anyone else, it is more the non-sexual bdsm experience that I'm looking for. In terms of my husband, I am fine with the thought of him sleeping with other women.

    I don't know how well him sitting in on a scene would go. His idea of extreme is my idea of mild, hence the reason I haven't told him everything. Many of the things I want literally repulse him.

    We've tried having him dominate me, it did not go well at all. In fact it went very badly and we had to do a lot of damage control. So that option is out.

    I know there is no way around this other than discussion. I guess what I'm asking is how do I tactfully bring this up? How do I soften the blow?
     
  4. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    Bring it up when he's back from work he won't have powers or will to start a fight
    I think you should think of lighter stuff for now until he'll get used to the idea of you being dominated by another man
    It's not necessery for him to watch tell him to supervise if he refuses :)
    and tell him it's a great opportunity to broaden his sexual life,many of the men would be glad to have such an opportunity
    I don't think I helped you out I'm sorry I never was married so I don't know how it works
    just wait to other responses there are people much more experienced then I'll be in next 20 years :)
     
  5. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Non-sexual bdsm is probably the way for you to go. Many doms out there are willing to consider taking you on as a non-sexual sub. Or you might look at finding prodom. There are more female prodoms than males, and much of what they do is non-sexual. These are options that would help you explain to your husband that this isn't about sexual dissatisfaction but rather a psychological need that he isn't able to address for whatever reason. Modern Americans place unrealistically high expectations on marriage: our partner is supposed to be our best friend and our ideal lover, have compatible views on children, career, and social and political issues, like most of the music and movies and hobbies we like, and so on. This is wildly unrealistic. Nobody's partner can do and be all of these things. So explain to your husband that this is one area where you two don't overlap, and that finding someone that you can submit to will ease a source of strain in your relationship. So talk to him.

    Communication is the number one thing you need to be doing. Help him understand the depth of your need to be submissive--even if he can't understand the urge itself, make sure he understands how powerful it is. Keep in mind that the only people who really understand the submissive urge fully are other submissives. Many doms have some understanding of it, but as a dom I admit there's a lot about being submissive that I just don't quite make sense of. So if you husband is not dominant or submissive, he doesn't understand this urge. Explain it as best you can, use metaphors and whatever, and when you've explained it as well as you can, then make sure he the strength of your desire for the stuff he can't understand.

    One other point that might help: one major element of bdsm is control. This is the part of bdsm that vanilla people are most likely to accept, even if they can't understand it. Control means that you will do anything your husband wants sexually. He gets to call the shots, have sex when he wants it, have it in the position or with the activity that he wants, and have it ways that emphasize his pleasure over yours. Most guys would love to have that--it's the classic male fantasy. So explain that to him. Once he figures out what you're offering him, he will probably start to warm to it. And it will help him to realize that your desire to be submissive to another person isn't about sexual dissatisfaction.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  6. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

    Hi m -

    I'm going to challenge you on a few things. Please don't take offense.

    I've read your post, and your reply to MJ and I kept thinking.... I don't get it.
    Sebastian had good advice for what you presented us on the surface, but there's something missing.
    I'll tell you what I think you're saying.

    "I love my husband and I really don't want to hurt him" --- This is obvious

    "I would like to open our marriage" -- This is not, and I can tell, he will never understand.

    "Don't want him to feel I'm not happy with our sex life (...love him any less)" ---- Neither of you is completely happy with your sex life. Were you ever really happy with your sex life?
    I went on a No carb diet once and whenever I ate, I still felt hungry...... Like that?

    Let me try to summarize what I'm hearing.

    You are a true submissive with masochistic under(/over)tones. You love it all, you tried to suppress it, got married with normal values that you pushed down your own throat and tried to suppress and deny what you really were.
    You got married "early" (right after school?) to a good guy that really loves, even cherishes you and wants to keep you happy even if it means taking on roles he doesn't understand and can't relate to. He does it..... But he's not a Dom, and you keep longing for someone to tie you up and use pain to reinforce your helplessness.
    I'm guessing that you only like pain when your restrained.
    You say you don't want to have sex outside your marriage, but the base of what you're expressing seems to say that the primary hunger you have is sexual, and you need it to get a release of everything else.
    He's trying to be what you need, at his own expense. So he isn't completely satisfied either, and he may be starting to feel either confused, inadequate, really frustrated or all of the above.

    I better stop here and ask you if I got you right so far..... cause if not, the rest (and the advice that follows) won't matter.

    If I got you all wrong, my apologies. I'll listen again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  7. Michelle28

    Michelle28 New Member

    L8NightQ -

    Your questioning is not offensive at all, if fact it is forcing me to look deeper.

    "Neither of you is completely happy with your sex life. Were you ever really happy with your sex life?"
    If I am to be completely honest with myself, then no, I have never been completely happy with our sex life. The sex with him is great, there is no denying it. But I am missing the other aspects that I crave. I guess you would say the feeling is similar to your no carb diet analogy...although I think I'm a bit happier than that. ;)

    "You are a true submissive with masochistic under(/over)tones. You love it all, you tried to suppress it, got married with normal values that you pushed down your own throat and tried to suppress and deny what you really were."
    Your understanding is correct.

    "You got married "early" (right after school?)"
    I was 20

    "to a good guy that really loves, even cherishes you and wants to keep you happy even if it means taking on roles he doesn't understand and can't relate to. He does it..... But he's not a Dom,"
    This is partially true. I didn't want to come on here and sound as though I was bad talking my husband, but as much as I love him and don't want to hurt him, we're not exactly in the best place either. He has a bit of a kinky side and this process has enhanced it and opened a few new doors for him. He does what he likes and has tried other things that he wasn't opposed to that didn't really do much for him (ex: using a dildo in my pussy while fucking my ass). Although, once I know it doesn't turn him on, I no longer want to do it with him.

    He can be a very selfish man. Even with emotional needs of mine that are completely unrelated to bdsm, he doesn't care. I've tried talking with him countless times about these things and he's literally said those words to me. So cherish? I don't know.

    He does have a dominating and controling personality. I played on that when I tried to explain the different roles. I used the same tactic that Sebastian suggested and my husband loved the idea of having control. The problem was, it turned to complete control and not in a good way. He tore me down until I was nearly a shell of what I once was. Rather than using this to build me up and increase my desire to submit to him, he made me feel worthless and useless in every aspect of our lives. There was a lot of verbal abuse going on (and I'm not talking about the humiliation that people get off on - this was bad). I realized this was not what I was looking for and tried to take our relationship back to where we once were. His loss of control really upset him and things progressively got worse until he realized I was preparing to leave (punching walls and kicking holes in doors was the last straw). Now he is making a solid attempt to straighten up and save the marriage. We're not yet back to normal, but we're on the right path. One thing I know for sure, I can't go back there with him again.

    I liken it to this: You wouldn't buy a new car and then never change the oil or care for the responsibilities a vehicle brings. If you don't, you end up with a shell of what it once was. This is what happened with us.



    "and you keep longing for someone to tie you up and use pain to reinforce your helplessness."
    I'm not so sure the pain reinforces my helplessness. It's more of a release, a huge release from everything. After all is said and done, it's as though I'm on this high of happiness. I can think clearer, analyze situations better. I just plain function better.

    "I'm guessing that you only like pain when your restrained."
    No. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy being restrained, but I don't need it. I enjoy pain regardless. I need it, I crave it.

    "You say you don't want to have sex outside your marriage, but the base of what you're expressing seems to say that the primary hunger you have is sexual, and you [More]need it to get a release of everything else."
    This is difficult for me to describe. I am a very sexual person, it seeps into nearly every aspect of my life, it's the way I've always been. When I say I don't want to have sex outside my marriage, I mean that my intention isn't to just sleep around with other men. I don't even know that I want actual intercourse with another man. I suppose that when I look at it, my submissive and sexual hunger interwine, there is no real separating the two. It is very difficult for me to explain my submissive desire, but it's real and is becoming increasingly stronger.

    "He's trying to be what you need, at his own expense. So he isn't completely satisfied either, and he may be starting to feel either confused, inadequate, really frustrated or all of the above."
    This may be true, I just can't get inside his head though. I'm very lost at the moment. (and we have two children to add into the mix)

    I don't know if this all makes any more sense or if I've just made it more confusing. You think you're confused, you should see the jumble in my head right now! ;)
     
  8. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Michelle, from what you've just said, there are deeper issues here than the dynamics of your sex life. Your husband has, based on your account, seriously hurt you self-esteem. That's a major problem in any marriage, vanilla or kinky. While a few very strong-willed subs enjoy the sort of humiliation that breaks their self-esteem, most subs don't want that. You want erotic humiliation in a context that lets you know that your husband loves and values you, and instead he's breaking your ego. So one of two things has happened here. 1) Your husband doesn't understand the difference between erotic humiliation and real humiliation, and he thinks he's giving you what you want. 2) Your husband is a selfish asshole who's taking advantage of your submissive side to emotionally abuse you.

    If 1 is the case, then you need to go to couples counseling with him (or, if he won't go, to counseling for yourself). You need to look for a kink-friendly counselor; otherwise the counselor is likely to focus on your submissive tendencies as the problem. You might be able to explain to him the difference between erotic humiliation and real humiliation, assuming you understand the difference yourself, and that might help him figure out what you're really seeking. If 2 is the case, then you need to seriously consider whether this is a relationship you can continue in. Being a submissive in an emotionally abusive relationship is a real problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  9. Michelle28

    Michelle28 New Member

    Sebastian, you've hit the nail right on the head. The problem is that he's number two. Humiliation has never been something that gets me going, in fact, it was never anything that we discussed in terms of our kinks, etc. This was more that calling me a slut and such. That would be humiliating for me, but it wouldn't cross any boundaries. This was much deeper and very painful. And you're right, my self esteem plummeted to next to nothing. I will say though, this entire process has caused me to grow a back bone. This is why I threatened to leave for the first time in our marriage. I am considering it, however, I do love him, I love him so much. And our children worship the ground he walks on. He has recently started a new job and now is only home for the weekends. This helps lessen the toxic environment, but watching the children's reactions every time he leaves breaks my heart. I don't want to uproot their lives. I want happiness with him, yet my submissive desires are so strong right now. and now I'm rambling and making little sense. I'm very confused right now.
     
  10. Tumbl3

    Tumbl3 Member

    Here's my two cents.

    I understand about loving someone and wanting to continue trying. All I'll say it's just a good idea to watch. I don't know if he would ever be verbally abusive to the kids, but that is definitely a concern.

    And uprooting their lives sucks, but if in the end it's better for them, then do it. Um, if you want elaboration just ask. Sorry I'm really tired/sore/adhd-ing right now.
     
  11. sillylittlepet

    sillylittlepet Active Member

    How old are your kids?
    If your kids are young (under 10) then of course they're going to worship their father to pieces, it isnt until kids get older that they resent their parents

    Recently I've learned that doing the right thing can be unbelievably hard but eventually the benefits will outweigh the pain you have to go though

    I believe that anytime a partner is abusive its bad news. I'm not married and I certainly don't have kids, but no one wants to see their mother in pain or be put down.
     
  12. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Michelle, I'm sorry to hear it's #2. You've got some tough choices to make. If he ever gets physically abusive, or if he becomes abusive toward your children, the choice is easy: leave him. But there's a lot to be said for staying with him for the sake of the children, especially because you seem to feel that it's not all bad for you. I think my general advice right now would be for you to go to a counselor and explore your feelings. You seem to feel that your husband isn't all bad, so maybe there's something there you can salvage. Good luck.
     
  13. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    I agree!
     
  14. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

    Thanks m - I understand better now. I actually read your response last night but I really needed to let it sit for a while.

    The verbal put downs really surprised me, and I still don't understand where that came from and if it only happened after you tried to volunteer your servitude. It sounds like he'd been wanting to do it and finally got an excuse to.

    I've got just a few more questions to help both of us get some clarity on this.

    You said you need the submission in your life but you haven't said where it fit before you got married, and if anything happened while you were married that made all this want to come back.

    Aside from that, you need to really think about something.

    If everything else was fine.... He loves you, you love him, you treat each other in a loving way and you're friends. If you were happy with each other outside of the sex... Would you have brought this up to us?

    Let me put it a different way. When you got married, did it matter that he was not a/your Dom? Was he good enough as a good husband? Was he worth you putting your submissive desires on the shelf?
    It sounds like your attempts were recent, why not early in your marriage?

    I ask because while sex is an important part of marriage, it's most often balanced against everything else in the relationship.

    Did your attempts to go after the sex you wanted begin to form a wedge? His travel gave you more time to investigate your fantasies on the internet? Something else entirely?

    Something changed in the seven or so years you've been married. Don't get me wrong... I've seen marriages fall apart based on one partners need for something else.... but only after other parts of the marriage weren't good enough to cover the "C" or "D" rating of the sex, or other problem area.

    With all that you've got. The wonderful kids, good marriage (aside from the conflict we've been discussing), stability, the home you've developed, friends, shared income, etc.... Why not live with the fact that you're not actively doing BDSM and compromise? You haven't been at it for this long. What makes it so compelling now? I just get the sense that there's something else here.

    Yes m... I'm poking at some buttons. Finding the language to answer me will help you see where things really fit in this picture you're painting.

    I've read through what everyone else has said, but many of the things you described may be symptoms the real problem that is festering. It might be sex related, or it might be something else. You might just be tired of each other.

    Just so you know.... I put it aside for almost 12 years of marriage. When it ended I was looking for just the same as you, but it didn't end for that. I'm not you, so I'm asking.

    Here's why. Whatever you want to call it.... Open marriage, some controlled release through a third party, whatever. Once you have someone who matches you on that end, and is ok on the rest, you're not gonna give it up. Then you'll have a choice to make during an already rocky marriage.

    Sun Tzu once said (I'm para-phrasing) - The value of a successful campaign can only be measured against what you lost to get there.
     
  15. TwistedSister

    TwistedSister New Member

    If I may ...and I am probably the last person on this earth you need to listen to. That being said. I have led a complicated life. Some of it happily complicated, some of it not so much so. I fell into this dilema - the one you describe. You have already done more than I did. I wanted BDSM, needed it. I did not try to talk to my husband. I knew, or perhaps unfairly said I knew, how he would react (not well). What I did know was that our relationship was never designed for BDSM with me being submissive. I have a very strong dominant side. So much so, that most people just see me in a take-charge role - whether it be work, home, or life in general. That is only a part of me.
    What I am dancing around and trying not to spit out - is I came to a decision. I was married to my best friend. Corny huh? For 26 years I was with the same man. My decision was hard, as is yours. How do you balance loyalty and trust to your husband with YOUR wants and needs? And how do you do this without feeeling like a complete shit. Well I let my now ex know that through no fault of his own I had grown in ways he had not and could not. I love him (and I still do) but I really needed and felt it was OK if I wanted to be happy.
    Woman, it is OK to be happy. It is OK to be happy with what you have and it is OK to happy to say good bye. You know no one caqn make those tough decisions for you. But be assured, when you make those decisions, you will have people who care to support you.
    Look at this post and all of the advice you have been given. If you local community (read - BDSM family) is anything like I have found in central and southern Ohio - you will find many compassionate people.
    If this is of help great! If not ... well keep looking. you will fing the right door you need to walk through. I have been there and made the tough choice. It lies with you and you alone. Good luck! Send me a message if you ever just want to talk or scream ... := ) I understand.

    Good luck with your search.
     
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