new to being a mistress he is a more experienced sub

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by MistressMaria86, Apr 13, 2012.


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    Hello, so having read various messages and not quite finding what I am looking for I thought I would post my own situation in the hope that someone can offer some advice.

    Up until a couple of months ago I still had my 'V' plates - yes at 31 this is is not usual I know but then again I didnt start living until three yrs ago when I took control of my weight. Up until that point I was shy intoverted had no real friends and subsequently no one had ever come near me (in a sexual way). I was so ashamed of my body I knew that no one would even want to. So three yrs on I am now a more respectable size and have a lot more of a life, friends etc. So met this guy through our shared interest of something completely vanilla and we struck up a friendship.After a while he confessed to having an interest in BDSM and in particular being a sub - he had had relationships in the past and it had always formed part of them. It had always been a curiosity of mine and rather conveniently I wanted to be on the other side but had not really ever thought about pursuing it - I hadnt even gone on a first date! We started texting and eventually I felt I had to tell him about my 'predicament' ie lack of any experience and very low self esteem with regard to revealing myself. Although he didnt want a relationship with me he was willing to help me out in any way that i wanted - ie to help me get over my issues. I guess in return I would be a domme for him. So fast forward a couple of months and I lost my virginity to this guy and I have cropped, flogged, tied him up, dropped candle wax on him. He has said he wants me to come up with things for him to do - lick kisss suck various parts of me, he wants to smell my boots and wants breath play - me sitting astride him but there is just one small problem - we are not in a relationship - ie bf and gf. I therefore am worried about asking him to do something that might be reserved for couples - he cant really worship me if he isnt really attracted to me can he?? He has said he wants to be forced to his knees etc but would he really want to service me with his tongue when we are really just friends?

    I guess i just want some maybe game ideas or suggestions of other things that I can do which fulfil his desire to be dominated but yet dont go too far down the initimate route. He has said again and again that I am in charge but the problem is when you have gone from 0-60 in terms of physical experience its quite overwhelming to suddenly telling someone else what to do when I dont know much myself!!

    Any thoughts greatfully appreciated.

  2. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    Not being in a relationship doesn't mean he's not attracted to you. It definitely does not mean that at all.

    He wants to be controlled, so take control. Many dommes see someone only once or twice, and still he's supposed to kneel and worship her.

    Being an f-sub, I don't have a ton of advice in what to do literally, physically. But I do suggest, since you seem so worried about it, that you sit down and have an honest talk about the things that have been bothering you and making you nervous or self conscious. Communication is the most important part of a BDSM exchange- and it can be done as equals.
  3. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    I really appreciate your story, MM. I was a virgin until I was 27, and only recognized my interest in BDSM about 2 1/2 years ago. Here are a couple thoughts:

    1) There is no special class of BDSM restricted to couples. Anything that he hasn't taken off the table is fair game, although you might want to talk with him before about some of the more unusual or extreme forms of play.
    2) You're the domme. You get what you want. If there's a particular form of play you want, go for it, unless it's a limit of his. If you want to be worshipped (and what dom doesn't?), demand that he worship you. Domming can be very healing for those who have experienced a lot of rejection. Being worshipped is about reveling in the feelings of power and control, so embrace it. Allow yourself to experience your inner bitch goddess-- I think you'll like it.
    3) Not all subs need to be strongly attracted to a dom to enjoy playing with that dom. I know one sub who really craves having to service doms he's not attracted to at all--he wants to be forced to suck a fat, ugly, old man--precisely because for him it would dramatize his lack of control. I can't say whether your sub is strongly attracted to you or not, but he wants to play with you, so take advantage of that to explore what you want to explore.
  4. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

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    First, you gave him your virginity, something that in my childhood was crammed down my throat and up my ass was supposed to wait until marriage. So the latter concern about things reserved for couples, IMHO, is a matter of personal conviction, and up to the involved persons to decide. Sebastian pointed out somewhere in these posts that some people are strictly monogamous, while others enjoy a polygamous lifestyle better.

    As for your sub telling you what he enjoys, he may be trying to "help" free you of your introvertedness by telling you that. I did that with my wife. Our situation resembled yours. One thing that solved that was the reinforcement that what I wanted was not hers, nor my concern. It was all about her. Which, was more of a turn on than her actually listening intently to me.

    Like the previous posts, relationship enters into it only when you want it to enter. I've learned BDSM is more psychological than relationship based. My wife and I are monogamous, so sharing our feelings and actions with each other, and each other only intensifies it for us. Our "dirty little secret."

    So, go for it! Unleash your Inner Bitch, stay within each others limits, communicate, and take control. Sebastian mentioned elsewhere that Dom(me)'s need confidence, which comes with experience. So, take your experience, it'll only get easier for you to force him to serve you. He won't complain.....but who cares if he does, anyway? Good luck!

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    Thank you

    Hi guys,

    Thanks so much for the replies I really appreciate it. I suppose my hesitations are also to do with the fact that I dont have a lot of body confidence generally and so even though he has said he will do anything (and I guess in theory I can do anything to him) I am still a little nervous. Right at the beginning of this little journey of mine I wrote down everything I thought needed to be 'conquered' from my point of view. Some things were deemed 'green' such as hugging sending naughty tetx messages etc (things I was happy to do from the outset) some which were deemed amber such as being touched on top of clothes etc (you have to remember I had NO experience whatsoever) and then some red which included s** and also giving and receiving (I guess a b*** j** and he doing the same to me. Well a few months on and to my surprise everything has been covered except the the last two. I just cant get my head round the idea of giving and also really receiving - it just seems such an intimate thing to do not to mention my issue of whether whats there is ok - in terms of me. I suppose because he has other points of reference he knows what he likes and what he doesnt whereas i only have him.

    On the Domme side of things yes I think I need to start thinking about what I want rather than whether he will like it or not. I suppose I just know that if I start making him says things like you're beautiful blah blah blah a i know he wont believe them and b neither will I and so its difficult to get pleasure out of it. However i suppose all the while he is telling me what he likes I am not really getting what I want and its almost a case of half a switch. My other slight worry is that eventually he will get fed up of waiting for me to take full charge and will decide that he no longer wants this. The whole 'helping me' thing is kind of done and now this is just some extra fun between two adults but at any time - especially if he meets someone it all has to stop.

    Anyway I will take whats been said on board - is it worth me buying some kind of Domme instruction manual or if anyone can point me in the direction of some online how to guides just to give me some more ideas for scenes or whatever I would really appreciate it.

  6. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    MM: We are the online instruction manual...

    As someone who used to be about 50 lbs overweight (and now is about 20-25 overweight), I understand your body image issues. Our society pounds it into us that only those people with thin, toned bodies are beautiful, but it just isn't true. The current trend for women with thin, boyish bodies is a comparatively recently development, beginning only in the late 60s. Across time, heavier women have always been considered beautiful in part because fat was a sign of wealth. Take a look at the painting of Rubens if you don't believe me. So part of your struggle here is going to be to get the assumptions of negative body image out of your head.

    The biggest problem with the idea that if you're fat, no one will want you, is that it isn't true. There are lots of men and women who are attracted to fat people. That's one reason why you often see couples where both are overweight. Yes they might encourage each other's eating habits, but they may also genuinely be attracted to each other. In the gay community, those who are attracted to fat guys are called chubby chasers, and they have their own dating sites. My ex-husband is a chubby chaser; he broke up with me because I wasn't fat enough. So believe me, if you are carrying extra weight, there are men out there who will find you sexy. Yes, they are rarer than those pursuing thinner women, but they are out there. One reason you may not have run into them is that growing up fat taught you shyness and various avoidance techniques that made it less likely you would be noticed.

    You've lost a good deal of weight, so probably a lot of what I just said doesn't really apply to you. But you're still wearing your mental Fat Suit. You're thin now, but you still tend to think of yourself as fat and you haven't learned to shed some of the mental conditioning of being fat. You're still convinced that your body isn't good enough, that you couldn't let a man go down on you because he'd see how fat you are (or something like that), and so on.

    Think about it. This man is having sex with you, being submissive to you, willing to do just about anything you want. But you're still convinced he's not attracted to you. If there wasn't any attraction at all, he wouldn't be having sex with you. (Trust me on this--submissive guys are just as capable as non-submissive guys of being picky, body-obsessed jerks. They only have sex with someone they find interesting for some reason.) Now, he might be attracted to you for your body; he might be attracted to you for your face; he might be attracted to you for your dominance; he might be attracted to you for your personality; he might even be attracted to you because he's not attracted to you. But he's definitely attracted to you in some fashion. So enjoy it. You've got the bright shiny toy that Fat You always wanted but thought she couldn't have. So play with it. Put that bright shiny toy wherever you want to put it, in whatever pose you want. Do you want him between your legs licking your snatch? Then put him there. Do you want his crotch at your face level so you can explore it? Then put him there.

    And I have news for you. You're in a relationship with him. When two people meet semi-regularly and have sex on multiple occasions, it's a relationship. Now it might not be the permanent relationship you ultimately want. It might not have the long intimate talks, romantic dinners, and furniture-buying that you picture in your ideal relationship. But it's still a relationship. So it can have whatever rules you and he are comfortable with. You may feel that you couldn't ever let any man go down on your except your prospective husband, and if so, by all means keep oral sex off limits until you find the right guy, But I've sucked a lot of cock in my time, and let me tell you, in my book, domming someone is MUCH more intimate than putting his cock in my mouth (or vice versa). I suspect the reason you don't see it that way is that you're still wearing that mental Fat Suit.

    Being dominant and being submissive are performative. You don't have to be 100% dominant down to your DNA to be a domme, any more than an actor has to be a psychotic killer to play one in a movie. You just have to have enough connection to the concept of the Dominant Woman to be able to perform that role. Think of it this way. Somewhere out there is the Platonic Ideal of the Bitch Goddess. The Bitch Goddess is gorgeous, has a stunning body, takes whatever she wants, treats men as disposal playthings, and is cruel, capricious, insatiably sexual, and aggressive. No actual woman like this exists. She's an ideal. But many women want to be her, and many men went to meet her, including your sub. When you are domming, you are putting on the Bitch Goddess temporarily. When your sub is worshipping your body, he's experiencing a piece of the Bitch Goddess through you, and the more you act like the Bitch Goddess, the more of her he experiences. And when you are domming, you get to experience being the Bitch Goddess. You may not be a supermodel, but while you're the Bitch Goddess, you get to feel what it's like to be a supermodel. You aren't Cruella deVille, but while you're the Bitch Goddess, you get to feel what it's like to be her. That's the point of being a domme. It allows you to really, truly experience these feelings with a man who wants to really truly experience their flip side.

    Now obviously dom/sub interactions are more complex than that. Some doms and subs don't want the Bitch Goddess, they want Mistress School Marm, or Naughty Nurse, or Queen Pirate Wench. But all dom/mes want to experience intense power and a sub who is pliable, and all subs want to experience an intense lack of control and a dom/me who sweats power. We want those things because, in most cases, they are not who we are. We get to be that person for a while, and then we get to take that persona off and go back to the rest of our life. And for some of us, we learn to be that person; we learn to integrate some of those traits into our life in a full and enriching way.

    The problem for you is that your mental Fat Suit won't let you slip into the Bitch Goddess' Dominant Bustier yet. But here's the thing: the Dominant Bustier is sort of like pajama jeans. It looks like it will only fit a sleek supermodel, but it will stretch to fit the fattest woman alive if she's willing to put it on. Being the Bitch Goddess isn't about having a perfect body; it's about learning to act as if you have the perfect body, because for your sub, whatever body the Bitch Goddess is wearing is the perfect body. The Bitch Goddess gets to wear whatever body she wants, because she's in charge. (Again, I'm exaggerating--one of the problems that femdommes face is that many men don't want an actual empowered woman, but rather a fantasy of an empowered woman they can ignore once they get their rocks off. But that's not universally true, and I'll bet it's not true for your sub. If you're interested in the seeing the perspective of a truly feminist domme, check out Bitchy Jones' Diary. She's not writing it anymore, but it's good reading.)

    So give yourself permission to feel the rush of power that domming a sub brings with it. When I'm domming and everything is clicking, I feel this fierce rush of angry energy well up inside me. I want to call my sub the worst names imaginable. I want to hurt his body, and I want to make him cry. I want to push him to his limits and show him feelings he never imagined and make him realize I'm the baddest badass that ever lived. I want him to have as little power as possible and I want to have all the power for myself. And it feels awesome to be in that state, wearing the Leather Master (who is the gay version of the Bitch Goddess) and looking at my sub and seeing the Worthless Pussyboy down at my feet. It feels intense, intoxicating, and beautiful to feel those feelings. So let yourself experience them. I guarantee you like them.

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    Again can I say...

    Firstly wow thank you so so much for taking the time to write such a reply you truly seem to have captured the essence of what I am feeling.

    Yes I have now lost the weight the prevented (or rather I had someone very close to me telling me that big is most definitely NOT beautiful) and actually convinved me that the only opinion worth listening to was hers - the few friends that I had werent going to tell me the truth and therefore I needed to hear it from her - no guy was ever going to be interested in someone like me and so as soon as i got to that teenage age where all those feelings start to come into play (and I started putting on weight I turned off that side of me - or rather it never switched on). Whatever i wore had to have her approval and make sure that it pretty much covered me head to toe - no one wants to see bulges etc etc and it was less hassle despite thinking that just sometimes I did look ok to return whatever she didnt like. I was also struggling with the fact that she - my mother couldnt deal with my weight gain and she herself didnt like to be seen with me - hard when you think your mother is everything to you. I decided to have weight loss surgery three yrs ago partly for health (although I was probably at the lower end of what they accept here in the UK) but partly because it was the only way i was going to get some kind of relatinship with her back. It might be considered extreme but she had me convinced that she really was the only one that mattered - although she now insists I came to her wanting to do it for my own reasons.

    Cut to now the weight has come off and we have a much better relationship but as you say mental/emotional scars run deep and its very hard to believe what he is telling me because I am not sure I believe it.The irony of it all is that he is quite a big guy and some would say not especially attractive and yet he has none of the issues i have - he is quite happy to get naked. I suppose the way my mind has been twisted all I can think is HOW COME you are not more ashamed/embarrassed - how awful is that!

    I laughed when you said about being in a relationship with him - he kind of said the same thing 'except without the mushiness'. We are not however having sex - it only happened the once - ok twice and not since.I did ask him about it the other day and he says it still has to be in context which again makes me feel as though its not really me he wants to be having sex with more he will do it if he gets what he wants ie the dom/sub stuff.

    I know deep down that I dont actually fancy him etc but a) you can forgive me for falling the the firat male to ever show me any kind of attention and for agreeing to do all the stuff on my list and b) when there have been occasions when we have done 'vanilla' stuff - just watching a film and he pulled me to be in his arms it felt sooooo nice just to have that closeness with someone yet I keep having to remind myself that its not 'real' from his part - he is doing that stuff to calm me down to help me feel more confident etc but its not a case of I want to hug her I want her close etc etc.

    I guess if its ever going to work I am going to have to try and break out of my own restraints. Luckily we always - I say always it hasnt happened that many times have a bit of a de-brief talking about what I liked etc etc and so maybe thats the time to do it and not pre empt or worry - whats the worst he can say - listen that didnt really work for me.

    Anyway once again thank you so so much - quick question - the difference between a bear and a chubby chaser??

    All the best
  8. edjixxx

    edjixxx Member

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    BDSM is pretty much all about breaking down those walls, dealing with past issues to move on, pushing boundaries. It pushes your pleasure limits also. Sebastian has said many times about the psychology behind BDSM, and starting out, it felt new, weird, scary, and then it all clicked for me. As far as sex, to be blunt, you've already gone that far before, and Sebastian is right with your in a relationship. Although ultimately, it's dependant on both sides agreement to the action. There's several ways I could think of to turn not having sex into a power play, even if you don't want to do it. But keep your mind open to new things!!! You may change your mind, and move into new, and adventurous territory.
  9. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    A bear is a lot different than a chubby chaser, but that sounds like the sort of question Sebby would best field.

    If you are having so much trouble with self confidence, and the things your friend and mother told you, I do suggest seeing someone about them. Even one round talking to a therapist can help- and if it seems like it has the potential to, you can keep going. If you don't like it, you never have to go again.

    And of course, as we've all said, domming isn't just about sex. Of course, in this case you should take it if you want it, from what I understand of his words-take what you want.

    The one thing that concerns me is that you stated somewhere that he'll do anything. I know you're not a superr hardcore domme or anything yet, but I would really go in and get him to tell you any limit he has, before it comes up in play. I believe you mentioned safe words, so that helps, but knowing in the first place is better.

    Also, have you read the Newcomer's FAQ? For one it might give you some ideas, and more confidence in your knowledge of what you're doing, and for another I think you'd benefit from the After Care part. I think it mostly focuses on a sub's aftercare, but some dom/mes need it too, and it might help your confidence or any dysphoria about it.
  10. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    MM: I'm glad what I say is helpful to you. I'm sorry you had such much pressure as a kid. My issues were different. My grandmother decided that I ought to love her more than my mom, so she constantly bribed me, both with food and money, and taught me I could have anything I wanted. That was a recipe for a chubby kid.

    Maybe you should think of this relationship as training wheels on a bike. It's not what you want, and it's not what he wants, but at the moment it's working out, and you're both getting something from it. He's getting dommed, and you're getting some sexual experience. So take it for what it's worth. You're worried about him moving on, but you can move on as well when you're ready. When you're done with this relationship, you will have a lot more confidence around sex and around BDSM, so it will be easier to go into another relationship, serious or casual. You'll feel more secure. So value the relationship for what it is giving you, rather than what it's not giving you. There are a lot more submissive guys out there than there are dominant women, so keep in mind that you're a rare commodity. And the more skilled you get, the rarer a commodity you will be. When it comes time for you two to move on, you will probably have an easier time finding a quality sub than he will have finding a quality dom. That may in fact be one reason he wants to be with you and help teach you--he hasn't been able to find what he's seeking, so he's creating it in you.

    As far as bears and chubs are concerned, there's a certain amount of disagreement, especially on the dating sites. Lots of chubby guys like to call themselves bears, because bears generally get more respect than chubs. But broadly speaking, bears tend to be hairy, both body and face, while chubs are often naturally smoother. Bears tend to look rugged, while chubs are often sort of baby-faced. Bears often have broad shoulders and some muscle, while chubs don't. There are also gradations: super-chubs (who are morbidly obese), cubs (smaller/younger/more baby-faced bears) otters (thin but furry), and so on.

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