Mental States

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Div, Sep 2, 2010.

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  1. Div

    Div New Member

    Hi everyone. I've lurked on these forums off and on for a few months now. I've read the newcomer's FAQ but I still have sort of a block and I haven't seen it discussed.

    Some background. I met my current girlfriend last year. It took a few months but she eventually told me that she's into being submissive. Apparently she was worried that I would judge her or something to that effect, but I don't. I'm completely open to the idea and quite enjoy exploring being dominant. I've always been the dominant one in sexual situations, but not to this degree. So it's all new and exciting to me.

    That said, I'm finding that I have two separate mindsets. One is the one I use in normal life. I make a lot of jokes, try to be kind/understanding, etc. The other one is... I guess more forceful? It's hard to explain, but it's different. My hope is that some other people here know what the hell I'm talking about and will understand. In regular life, my girlfriend and I are very egalitarian, but when it comes to sex-based endeavors, we're in different roles. I'm stating obvious things now. The point is, I have two mental states: master and regular.

    That's all well and good, I don't mind the separation. However, I have a great difficulty switching between the two well. Sometimes we'll be sitting on the couch, and I'll think "you know, I really wish she were tied down to the bed naked right now," but I can't outwardly make that transition when we're sitting there watching Gilmore Girls (don't judge me, Gilmore Girls was an awesome show). It takes me a long time to transition from regular me to being her master, and it often seems to necessitate a period of silence between us, and that doesn't really happen until later in the night, and by that point I know all she wants to do is sleep. I don't like to force her into sex when she truly doesn't want to be forced, if that makes sense. That turns into kind of a vicious cycle. Her sexual appetite seems to be dictated by how often and how effectively I am able to be her master.

    So, I hit kind of a wall. I know she wants to be told what to do, but it takes me forever to make that transition from regular life to being able to tell her what to do. I really want to get into the more consistent aspects of what I guess you call bdsm. Sending her to work with a rope harness on, that kind of thing. I'd like to eventually get to the point where she orgasms on command. I know that takes a long time to do and probably doesn't work for everyone, but I guess it's good to have goals, right? I don't really know where to start with that, but that's really not even at issue right now.

    My assumption is that it has something to do with confidence, but I don't really know how to break myself of the habit. During the day, I dream up what I want to do when I see her later, but when I actually see her, the mood is so light that I can't make the transition from what is happening to what I wanted to do, or we just have other things that need to be done.

    I've talked to her about all this, actually I think we've discussed it a couple of times, and while she reassures me that I don't need to be timid (relatively), it doesn't really help. So I don't know what to do.

    Do you have separate mental modes? If so, do you or did you ever have difficulty segueing between them, and are there good ways to overcome this difficulty? Are there perhaps rules that could be implemented that would help me get into this more?
     
  2. decoyicus

    decoyicus Member

    I think I know what you are getting at your sexual identity and your public identity (how you act around people you are not fucking) are very different but you feel the two are conflicting at times I know how you feel in day to day life I am the funny flamboyant bisexual who flirts with anything over the age of consent but in the bedroom I am a domineering sadomasochist. I am completely new to BDSM so you might want to get advice from someone with more experience (Sebastian knows a lot) but I think you should talk to your GF about what you want out of your sexual relationship I've red about people doing the 24/7 BDSM thing and they seam pretty happy.
     
  3. Div

    Div New Member

    That's a good idea. I'm not sure I'd be into 24/7 but maybe like... 24/3.
     
  4. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    What you're talking about is the difference between bedroom bdsm and 24/7 bdsm. In a 24/7 relationship, the dom and sub are not egalitarian at any time (except when around those who are not into bdsm). So if you and your gf want to be egalitarian to some extent, you don't want 24/7. So you'll probably have to discuss the boundaries of your bdsm with her. Set whatever rules you like: Egalitarian until 8pm, or egalitarian on Tues, or egalitarian about money and dates but not about chores and sex and how she dresses.

    But all this requires communication. Bdsm relationships require a good deal more conversation than vanilla relationship often do. Don't try to read her mind about when she wants egaliatarianism and when she wants domination; ask her what sort of boundaries she wants, explain what you want, and figure out something that meets your needs and wants. Once the relationship is more established and you learn her moods, it will go a little bit easier. But even then you'll want to talk with her occasionally about whether her needs have changed, whether she's satisfied or wants more or less egalitarianism, and what things you can do to keep the relationship fresh and growing.

    When I first got into bdsm, which honestly wasn't very long ago, I had some difficulty making the shift between normal me and dominant me, and screwed up one very promising relationship by being too egalitarian at a key moment (long story, but the boy had pretty big issues). But as I've gotten more experienced and more confident, shifting has become much easier. So don't worry. You'll get there. It just takes time and practice and confidence.
     
  5. decoyicus

    decoyicus Member

    yea the 24/7 thing does seam a little extreme even with my hypersexuality but maybe you two could set aside a day every week or month maybe Sundays (that's mine and GFs) where you just have sex and do BDSM
     
  6. Div

    Div New Member

    This is actually helpful. I've asked her what frequency she wants domination, but her reply is generally to the effect of "whatever you think is best." I have no problems making decisions about things that I have experience in, but I don't really have experience in this, so I guess I just have to just throw a blind dart.

    I always think it's so jarring to the submissive to just be told out of nowhere to start up something sexual, which is a big part of why I have trouble doing it. Do you ever just get effectively safeword rejected right from the get-go? Is that just not done? Or are you perhaps just suppose to know when it's a bad time? It's a difficult thing for me to wrap my head around, because in this culture "no" doesn't really mean "no," it seems to mean "hell yes!" The submissive is suppose to basically do what the dominant says, but then how does the submissive know when they need to just call time out? She's more experienced than I am so I guess I shouldn't worry about it so much.
     
  7. decoyicus

    decoyicus Member

    from what I have red two things that are key for the sub and the dom both having a good time is setting hard limits and soft limits hard limits being things you definitely wont do and soft limits as things you don't want to do right now but are not completely off limits the other thing is a safe word or the color system I personally like the sound of the color system green being keep going yellow being slow down orange is stop I'm having a problem and red is stop I don't like this
     
  8. Gypsy_Arose

    Gypsy_Arose New Member

    Perhaps you could buy her a necklace or something else she could wear to help signal what might be appropriate. When she puts it on or you ask her to put the necklace on, that lets you know that she is in her sub mood and willing.
     
  9. Tumbl3

    Tumbl3 Member

    I like gypsy's idea of a necklace, but I think you should talk to her again. When it comes to the frequency of being dominated, she really needs to help you set that boundary. I'm still new to BDSM too, and to being a dom, and my puppy has tried the "whatever is good for you" answer. That answer would be okay if I was more experienced but I'm not. So I'll keep asking until I get an answer. For my puppy it's more of a "I don't want control so I'll let you choose" mentality, but the thing is, you gotta have SOMETHING to go upon.
    Actually some subs (as far as I know [which isn't far lol]) like to be told out of nowhere to start something sexual. And you don't have to start with something extreme. If anything you can always work your sub up to it. I personally like seducing my puppy >:] but that's me.
     
  10. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    You're going to have to discuss these sorts of things with her. You'll need to set rules with her about when she can use the safe word and when she just has to obey. She needs to understand that you're new to domming and still learning. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to communicate about this stuff. A lot of subs want their dom to be psychic, to know exactly what the sub wants and when, but this is unfair, particularly at the start of the relationship.
     
  11. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

    Well Seb, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

    Div - It's not just subs who want you to be psychic, it's all our partners.... kinky or not.

    When you think about it, your issue is one of countless males who assume the traditional dominant (non bdsm) role in a relationship. You want to have sex with your woman, but you care about her, care about her feelings, you're her best friend, etc.... So how do you take her from watching tv, or doing something else that's completely non sexual to the point where your fucking. Guys dilemma, boyfriends dilemma, partners, dilemma.
    The boundary and transition areas are the same. You guys are just kinky.

    You've got some great suggestions here, particularly from Tumbl3, Gypsy, and Seb regarding time zones that belong to you, or signals that belong to her. Let me suggest one additional thing for you that will help the transition and reinforce your roles. A bridge, so to speak.

    First, take the suggestion that certain times are your times, and if she has a problem with that, then she should make sure that there is an exception to the rule for that time. This, however should be negotiated to allow for you to select an alternate time. It doesn't just go away.

    If she can't pick, then choose the times that you think work best for you, with some consideration for her work hours. You may want to give her a free rolling period for times when her body is not quite normal (translate... her period). These are free times, but she needs to tell you when this is happening, not just assume you know (Aunt flo is on her way, or whatever, just be clear).

    BDSM doesn't have to start with you as an aggressor. My toy often starts a session with a trigger. This trigger could be a "point of entry" on your bridge.

    You guys love each other, so sometimes she just wants to be close and touchy feely with you. Let her be. If she tries to wake up the beast by stroking your dick or something more overt, you know you're on the bridge cause she is taking you across with her. At that point she is yours.... if not, you guys were just being close. Fine.

    Other times, you guys may have just come in from somewhere, or you may still be out, but when you really feel like taking her, just say "I've got something in mind for you. This is just for me..... Are you ok with that?"
    If she says yes, your bridge is clear for you to carry out your vision.

    This, by the way, can be done whether you're in your time zone or not. And it's a good thing to do, just to let her know that the schedule is not always hard for you and she is yours all the time. Trust me, it will really help her feel close to you and let her know that you are always thinking about her.

    Tumbl3 also mentioned that some subs like to be subjugated out of the blue. I agree. As a Dom you have the right (if she is that kind of sub, and most are) to spank her pretty much when you want. Not a punishment spank, but a ownership spank, if you can relate to that. Let's say she doing some cleaning, like washing dishes. Try just walking up behind her and putting your arm around her neck (slow, not fast like an attack). With your other arm reach around from behind and start to fondle her. Most subs will stay still and silent. After that, keep your arm around her neck and pull down whatever she has at waist level, to expose her bottom. Bend her over a counter or chair and spank her for a minute or so. Then let her go and tell her to keep her clothes where they are and go back to what she was doing until you tell her she can pull them back up/put them back on. She will feel exposed, owned, and objectified. If she asks your permission to pull her clothes back up, give her a task to do to satisfy you (can you think of one Mr. Dom?), and then she can carry on.

    After a while the signals and body language... and the bridge signals will become pretty automatic.

    And of course, this is purely psychological.... Just to provide reassurance to you for something that you shouldn't feel guilty about.

    One more thing. Since you guys don't live together, I assume she comes to see you, or you come to see her. You could just get used to telling her "Every time you see me, you're going to serve me, sooner or later" implying that you expect to have sex or some kind of subservience, every time you see each other. If you roll this way, she will come to expect it as a regular part of seeing you.

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. Div

    Div New Member

    It's been a hectic couple of weeks. The floors are being redone so I haven't had a computer. Thank you for the helpful replies.

    I'm not sure how big a fan I am of the color system. I'm new to this and all, but I do recognize the paradox of power that goes on in these kinds of relationships. That is, the dominant is in charge outwardly, but in a more subtle and yet forceful way, the submissive is truly in control. It's kind of like an illusion, and I think the color system would break it to a certain degree. I guess if it were just "red" means stop, that would be fine. That'd be just like having a safe word though, and that's pretty standard.

    The necklace is a good idea. I have a collar that has been used very irregularly. It hadn't really had a purpose until now, but it's a good idea.

    I did talk to her about what kind of frequency she likes, as in what is too much or too little. What I got out of it was two things. A. When she is horny, she thinks about being dominated 85% of the time (her number not some bizarre math I did). B. She doesn't want to completely abolish vanilla sex.

    Honestly, I think she was toning her response down for me. I think she thinks I'm not really as into it as she is, and therefore softened her response to one that wouldn't (in her mind) disappoint me. When I talked to her about this, we had been on kind of a kick of vanilla, mainly due to the craziness going on in our house, and I think she may have been under the impression that I tried it out and didn't like it, but that's really not the case. This isn't a problem, though, as I can show her otherwise fairly easily.

    I'd love to implement more ritual into our lives. Not a ton, but you know, some. The difficulty with this is that we don't live alone together at the present time, and this really puts a damper on our exploration of all this. Having to be quiet is fun, but there's a certain allure to loudness, ritual and spontaneity that I'm lacking. For example: I have a little notebook that I have her write in once a day. She thinks of a new punishment for herself, and if she doesn't write anything, she gets punished with the previous day's punishment. There are two problems with this. She sucks at remembering, and there isn't always an opportunity to punish her when it is necessitated. Our lives and living situation just get in the way, and I'm not sure how to sidestep this problem. A lot of my aspirations kind of get pushed aside in favor of sleep, work, school, friends, not finding ourselves in embarrassing situations with our roommate, etc. I guess I'm going to hijack my own thread and just kind of turn it into a "help me out/talk about similar experiences" thread, as that seems to be the staple around here.
     
  13. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    If you just want a simple 'Red' safe word, then use that and figure out others ways to get at the other issues. Safe words are primarily for physical safety.

    As far as the notebook is concerned, punish her for not remembering to use the notebook. Train her to remember that the notebook is something serious that you need her to be doing.

    Perhaps the overall issue here is that you two are having trouble establishing a foundation off of which you can build something more dynamic. So maybe you need to focus on the basics first. Figure out one or two very basic routines or rituals that you adhere to like clockwork, until they become reflexive. That will give you both some confidence and structure, and then once you have that established, build on it slowly with more rituals and routines. It sounds like both of you have a lot of things that make a regular schedule difficult to establish, so figure out a time that regular time that you're both available and attach a ritual there. For example, if you two always see each other at bedtime, arrange a ritual that she has to ask permission to climb into bed. And to do that, she has to kneel and wait for you to acknowledge here. And before she can do that, she has to write in the notebook.

    One other point, and maybe this is off base. You said that you joke around a lot in your normal persona. When you're doing anything dominant, including just simple ritual, avoid the temptation to joke. The purpose of ritual is to build focus and (in this case) sexual tension. Joke dissolves tension and breaks focus.
     
  14. AnErieGuy

    AnErieGuy Member

    Just my 2 cents, training to cum on command is actually quite simple. I did it in two weeks with my girlfriend, but what made it easy was we had sex about 30times in those two weeks. When she is about to cum, say a phrase at least twice, my phrase was "Cum for me." Make sure she won't cum on the first repetition of the phrase though, make sure you get that second interval in. Then, when she does cum, say it again as many times as you can(without being a turn off or weird) to her until her orgasm ends. Hopefully she is multi-orgasmic, in such case, quickly get her close again and say it twice, again, but DON'T let her cum, might seem mean, but it then teaches her mind that she is to cum for YOU(or more accurately that phrase) and not for the physical pleasure. Do this a few times over the course of a month (Or in the case that you have alot of sex two weeks) and she will soon enough begin responding to that phrase. Now, I can't say my phrase and have her instantly cum, yet, but I can be licking her neck and then whisper in her ear the phrase and she will cum, and it has gotten to the point where she can be aroused significantly off that phrase. I shouldn't say it's easy, but it is terribly simple, it's all along the pavlo's dog concept, minus the shooting. Two points to whoever understands that. Currently I am working on Texting her the command while she masterbates for me, to keep it current in her mind. Being we are 1000+ miles from each other for a few months, and long term, years.
     
  15. kajmir

    kajmir Member

    I'm going to jump in where I'm not wanted. :D

    Why is this being made so ...complex?

    Div if you asked her when she wants master around and she says "Whatever you think" that would be a BIG SHINY GREEN LIGHT. She is telling you to go ahead and give it a shot whenever you want, if she's like me or most woman, this is prolly her version of saying: Jee I really hope you're spontanious with this.

    So here's the thing, GO give it a try whenever you want. Us subs don't want an 8pm appointment to be dominated, not at 7:30 or 11:15 either. It's great when it's random and totally YOUR idea. It ads to your...dom-ness!

    You're looking at this the wrong ...let me set a scene for you, you're both on the couch, watching...oh god, Gilmore Girls. You're half hard, she's beside you.

    "Plaything take off your top and pinch your nipples for me"

    You're thinking vanilla: wow I'm so rude, no manners.
    Her: Wow he's really catching on fast.

    You're not looking to be 24/7 from what I understand, you just wanna know if you can be more random, no you don't HAVE to be in the actually bedroom for her NOT to mind you suddenly having a horny moment and wanting to dom her.


    I'd be less concerned with worrying bout hurting her feelings:
    If she's REALLY not into it, then she'll tell you and back to, oh god, Gilmore Girls you both go. No harm no foul - except the show.
     
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