Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by sierra, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. sierra

    sierra New Member

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    Hi everyone,
    Believe it or not this is the first BDSM forum I've ever posted on...this was the only one I could find that wasn't too intimidating and where the people seem real enough to talk to. I don't know what has prompted me to post, i just suddenly feel like I need to be brutally honest with someone, anyone...

    As far back as I can remember I've had the need to be truly submissive to one man... I have this fantasy that he will come for me at some completely unexpected point in my life and claim me as his slave. I don't want it to be consensual, i don't want any safe words. I want him to push me to my limits and beyond...but at the end of it when he has trained me as his slave and I am truly his, I need to love and be loved by him.

    I realise that this is pretty much impossible, there's no way such a man exists and I'd be too afraid to ever trust somebody that much. I guess I just wanted to express my longing and frustration. I used to think I was weird and perverted but its good to know that there's nothing wrong with how I feel. I still feel guilty though as on the surface my life would appear to be going well, I'm an intelligent student with a promising career lined up, I have friends who I love, a boyfriend who is an amazing person (he's far too nice to ever make me do anything, although he has tied me up on occasion...), and only a slightly dysfunctional family. I'd be prepared to give all this up however for the simple pleasure of serving my master, it doesn't make sense?

    Anyway sorry for the huge rant, it's nice to meet you all! xxx
  2. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    Sierra, nice to meet you. What you are craving is pretty improbable, but that doesn't mean you can't have big pieces of it. Start with a relationship in which you get to set a lot of limits, use safe words. and so on. Have a lot of discussions with your master so that the two of you learn each other's interests, limits, and so on. Then gradually start removing those limits, reducing your power, and expanding his. That way both you grow together. You learn to trust him and you learn how to obey his commands in a true way, and he learns where he can push you and where he can't.

    And just because your current bf is nice guy doesn't mean that he can't learn to be a real master. NIce guys make the best masters if they get in touch with their dominant side. Not all nice guys have a dominant side, but many more have them than realize it. Take a look at the Newcomer's FAQ and read what I say about the Outer and Inner Layers of BDSM. At the moment, your bf is probably thinking that BDSM is the Outer Layer. He probably thinks you're asking him to be cruel to you, and because he's a nice guy, he thinks he could never do that. But if you can help him understand the Inner Layer, where the rough play is feeding your need, he may realize that spanking you or pissing on you or whatever else you want him to do is an expression of love. If he can get to that point, he will probably begin to realize that it's ok for him to make sexual demands of you. People think BDSM is about being selfish, but it's really more about selfish altruism (or altruistic selfishness). A dom is selfish in ways that meet the needs of his sub. By demanding what he needs, he addresses your needs at the same time. Help him see it this way, and he may discover his dominance.
  3. Gilgland

    Gilgland New Member

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    Wow Seb...That actually helped me in regards to my previous question on how to give a sub what they want. The gradual expansion of control and the decreasing of limits is specifically what struck a chord with me as well as the altruistic selfishness. I think you had told me this but just the way you worded it here really hit home. Once again, thank you for your insight.

    To you Sierra, Seb is right on about nice guys. I consider myself a very sweet and loving person that would bend over backwards to make my significant other happy, I just realized, at some point, that sometimes what makes them happy is tying them to the bed and doing all sorts of nasty things to them :) Out of that I get the thrill of not only taking control but knowing that they are getting a feeling of fulfillment too, and to me the second part is the most important.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  4. thecabbie

    thecabbie New Member

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    I agree completely with all of the above. As the dominant, it was a process of understanding my own wiring too and realizing that what made my GF truly happy/lustful/excited/turned on was me taking absolute control of her sensations and yes, sometimes doing things that I initially thought were cruel. It went against my childhood training as a pacifist growing up. Never hit a lady and all. Well, in anger that still applies but her pleasure involves pain and the pushing of boundaries, so mine got pushed as well. The cycle feeds upon itself. Nice guys can be nice guys even as dominants. I do still worship the ground my g/f walks upon. I just have a different way of doing it.
  5. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

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    Well put Sir.
  6. Death

    Death Member

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    I would not say that what she's longing for is that improbable... it all sounds perfectly reasonable to me. There was a point in my life, almost nine years back, now, when I met a girl I found myself to really like, and I found that she was into BDSM, without maybe even knowing it, herself. I was not into BDSM at this point in my life, was an overall rather boring person, really, and parts of what she said turned her on even were sort of sickening to me. However, while she and I never were a couple in any way, the things I had found out about her stayed with me, and the more extreme views of a then friend of mine further exposed me to it, and just a year later from when I had started growing an interest in her (but at that point not talking to her, anymore), I found myself wanting a pet, as opposed to a girlfriend... a pet as in my girlfriend being my pet, and my property. At this point, I was now also aware of that it was a Master/slave relationship under true love that I wanted, and although this realization about me came at a point in my life when some events overwhelmed me with dark thoughts, the Master/slave relationship that I started craving was wholly positive; only beautiful, for the sake of her happiness, and as a result, my happiness, for without her happiness, mine could not exist. It's indeed a sort of altruism, even when punishments and treatments may seem a bit harsh, as they are a means to make her a better slave, thus making her happier. On a side note, I wonder if these altruistic views on this tend to translate into similar behaviour in life, otherwise? Although my mind can turn very dark, at times, I find myself doing my best to meet people with kindness and by being genteel, and sometimes helping people, merely for the sake of helping them... unfortunately, it has also made me get used for my kindness, which has made me a bit more cynical, today... -_- always was cynical to begin with, of course, but you should meet people with a default goodness, regardless of if you think you may dislike them or not... one should never allow oneself to start viewing people negatively by default.

    Anyway... what I'd like to say is that I would indeed claim that such men do exist. I'm prepared to say that I am one of them, and finding my girl, who wants the other side of it, is a longing I have unlike any other, and considering that I was a bit lacking in understanding about these things, at that time, before, but quickly "found" myself and never turned back as much as an inch, I'd say that your boyfriend well may end up finding himself in a similar position as I once did... you have been given some very good advice in this thread, already, on how to make him eventually see the beauty in it all, and I truly wish you good luck... it's all about making him realize that the humiliation and punishments and such really are for your happiness, and if you are happy with it, shouldn't he be...? And being for your happiness, it also holds a beauty unlike any other.... or that's what my mind speaks, at least, in regards to my future-found true love.
  7. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    Death, the reason I find her fantasy improbable is that she wants a master who is perfectly suited to her needs and wishes without having any role in choosing him or shaping the relationship. That's highly unlikely.
  8. Infinia

    Infinia Member

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    I agree with seb the nice ones are seriously perverted lol
    Mistress is very nice and she wouldnt hurt a fly is always concerned with everyones feelings and thoughts, but she's my mistress and can be very dominant and painfull depending on her mood. as long as your bf knows you enjoy it and he can see you enjoying it his confidence in doing it will grow and depending on his personality by the end of training him as a master and you as submissive you might find you've gotten so close to have your dream come through
  9. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

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    But I think what Death was referring to was his perception of her fantasy, and how it might play out in real life. Lots of people have fantasies bordering on abduction and forced subjugation but few would react the same in real life as in their day dreams.

    In real life, I think she'll want a safeword, but who wants one in their fantasy?

    I'm with Death on this on and think that what she wants lies more towards Dominance than criminality (haha)

    sierra -
    I think Seb is right, as it relates to your boyfriend. You may just have to do more than you first thought to get the life you want.
    It is far more likely that your current lover can turn into your villain than anything else. Guys are much more likely to turn once they understand and get through the culture shock of being "mean".
    I personally think most guys have the gene in them that makes them perk up while Jessica Rabbit is being tied to the train tracks.

    Get him "When Someone you Love is Kinky" by Eatman, as a present. If he is really open to it, try "The Loving Dominant" by Warren. They can go a long way towards helping you make him understand you, and worth the investment.

    Good luck sierra, and welcome
  10. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    I do think that she can find much of what she's seeking. The heart of her fantasy is complete slavehood with a strong master, and that's possible. From my chats with various subs, I've noticed that many of them fantasize, like Sierra does, about encountering a man so dominant that he simply takes control, regardless of their own desires, and forces them into slavehood. There are two basic problems with this fantasy.

    1) It's dangerous. I've only known one guy who encountered this scenario in reality, (for those of you who remember when I first showed up on the forum, it was 'Alex'), and his master tricked him into bondage, raped him for a weekend, subjugated him emotionally in a very uncaring way over the following months, and then abandoned him after Alex had become emotionally dependent on him. It took Alex more than a year to recover from that trauma and I suspect he's still dealing with it. The reason this is always going to be dangerous is that a master who doesn't care about what you want is, by definition, selfish, callous and abusive. That might be fun for a night or a weekend, but for an actual relationship it's gonna turn miserable very quickly. These doms know this, I suspect, and therefore tend to brutalize and abandon their slaves. And these doms do risky shit. I know a boy who met a guy who tied him up, shoved various inappropriate items up his ass, and perforated his colon. The boy lost 3 pints of blood and nearly died on the way to the hospital.

    2) It's also lazy and irresponsible on the sub's part. That sounds harsher than I actually mean it. What I mean is that in this fantasy, the sub doesn't actually have to do any work. The master comes along, perfect in all regards, and simply imposes control on the sub. The only work the sub has to do is learn to obey the dom's commands. Sure, the master is harsh and demanding, but he's doing all the work and the sub is having fun because what the master is demanding is the sexy stuff the sub craves. So the sub gets to be emotionally lazy and doesn't have to share any responsibility for what is happening. In reality, d/s relationships are hard work. They require constant communication. Both dom and sub have to learn what the other needs and have to express their needs directly. They have to take regular risks of being rejected by their partner when they describe a new fantasy or kink. They are jointly responsible for creating the relationship. BDSM is a lot of work for the dom as it is, without having a sub who takes no responsibility. And no dom is truly dominant 24/7. It's just not possible. Even Mr Benson wasn't Mr Benson all day.

    What Sierra is fantasizing about is very common among subs, especially new inexperienced ones. It's the Outer Layer of BDSM. It's natural that this is her fantasy right now. But the Inner Layer is where a real BDSM relationship is built. That's why I think her fantasy is improbable, but that she can realize large parts of it. She'll need to build that relationship rather than simply have it imposed on her.
  11. L8NightQ

    L8NightQ Member

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    Seb - you bring up a very important point. The danger of the Dom wannabee, or sadistic nutjob who will literally interpret a new sub's fantasy and criminalize it.

    Well said.
  12. Likely

    Likely New Member

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    Like Sierra, I'm also "new." I found my master two years ago before I understood that what I wanted was a bdsm relationship. It wasn't until I unwittingly fell into "sub-space" that we began to understand where things needed to go. I know why Sierra called the post "longing" too. It's the feeling you have as a new sub when you want to be dominated, but as a new sub, we have no idea what will satisfy that longing. Communicating directly with your master is all very well and good, but how do I tell Master what I need when I don't know myself? I'm two years into a 24/7 relationship that is going very well, but I still feel that longing and frustrate my master with my inability to tell him what will satisfy it.

    Some practical advice would be very well received.
  13. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    Have you read my '4 Spheres of BDSM' post in the Newcomer's FAQ? One reason I wrote that was to help gives subs a language to talk about their desires
  14. Likely

    Likely New Member

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    Thank you

    I did read your post Sebastian and found it much more useful than I expected xD Afterwards I had a talk with Master about introducing more intense control into our relationship (quality rather than quantity). May I also humbly suggest that you add a section about aftercare in after the four spheres? I believe it is as important as the other four since it is a time for the Dom to show just how important his sub is to him, however, aftercare is rarely referred to in any depth. I, like many subs was in a previous abusive relationship so aftercare is a high priority for Master.

    Thank you for your advice.
  15. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    Likely, that's a good suggestion. I'll post something about it when I have time.

    If you're struggling to feel controlled, perhaps it would help to add some rituals to your daily life. Ask your master to identify some short activities that you can do every day that emphasize his authority over you. For example, when the two of you greet each other after getting home from work, you kneel down and kiss his shoes/feet and tell him how grateful you are that he has chosen you. Even a few small gestures like that can remind both of you of what you're doing and why.

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