How do you handle the "paradox" of bondage?

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by magicianwandered, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. magicianwandered

    magicianwandered New Member

    Hi, I'm obviously new here but I have a question. There is an inherent paradox to bondage. Bondage is a kind of control, which renders a person helpless, and unable to object or stop the other person from doing anything. It can make a 110 pound girl more physically powerful than a 250 pound body builder.

    When you want to be tied up (I'm sure these arguments work in reverse if you want to do the tying) you want the other person to gain control over you, to get veto power over your ability to do or stop anything. The problem is, if you want to be tied up, (especially if the other person isn't as into it as you) that you're almost just tying yourself up. The bondage is there just for show. It doesn't stop you from doing anything, since you were going to let the other person do whatever they wanted anyway, and you even probably want them to do it to you.

    So for a specific example, I want my wife to tie me up, and she does sometimes, but mostly just because I ask her to do it. I know I'm lucky she'll do it at all, but it feels like my bondage, but I want it to be her bondage, something she did to control me.

    So there's the paradox. You can't be controlled by someone who you are asking to control you.

    Here's another way to say it. If she ties me up, I'd let her do whatever she wanted, even if I was untied. If she were to do something bad enough that the bondage is effectual, in that I would stop her if I could but can't because I am tied up, it might be so bad that it ruins the experience.

    Here's yet another way to say it. I want my wife to tie me up and violate my will, but how can she do that if it is my will that she do it?

    So what kind of experience have you guys had with this idea? Am I just being naive about what S&M is?

    Tell me if you've had any good experience where the tied person may have regretted being tied, or wouldn't have gone through with the scene if it weren't for that fact that they were tied. After all, if they like it, wouldn't they just go through with it?

    Sorry if I made a TLDR first post, but I imagine you guys, being on and S&M forum, probably gave this kind of thing a lot of thought.
     
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  2. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Well, this is the central paradox of all d/s play. The sub wants things he doesn't want. One thing that can help is if you wish will taunt you, ridicule you for being so submissive. A real man would fight, wouldn't let a woman tie him up, and so on. By goading your ego, she can may push buttons that will make the experience more intense and get you out of the place you're in.

    Or you might try a game where she ties you, and you then have 15 minutes (or whatever) to get out. If you can't, you get a penalty--you have to buy her a new dress, or do all her chores for a week, give up tv for a week, or anything you don't want to do.

    Some gay men play a game where they wrestle to determine which of them will be the sub. The first one to get roped subs. Perhaps you play the game with a handicap, like having your hands already tied. Of course, this requires that she enjoys some sort of physical struggle with you.
     
  3. wolf123

    wolf123 Member

    i dont really see a paradox. If you want to be controlled and enjoy it when someone is controlling you, then its consensual. They are most likely doing things that turn you on or you enjoy. If you are being controlled against your will, and doing things you really dont enjoy (not to be confused with hidden enjoyment such as many people "dont like punishments" but want them) then you wouldnt be enjoying it. Im viewing this beyond a bondage aspect. Your problem is not having a partner that enjoys the same things as you.
     
  4. magicianwandered

    magicianwandered New Member

    Those are some good ideas, sebastian. I might try the thing where I have to buy something for her if I can't get free. She loves doing that.

    It would have the benefit of making it into a competition where she actually wins, instead of having things proceed according to some track.

    I probably don't want to do the thing where I have to give up something for a week. I have this odd feeling when I'm done doing some S&M thing or something with my wife, after I "go". It suddenly becomes odd, like why would I ever want someone to do this to me? So the chores and stuff wouldn't be all that sexy until I was horny again. But then again maybe that fact would make it more sexy the next time around.

    Also you are partially right Wolf123. She isn't all that into it, but not totally out of it. One time she was watching some old British comedy, and there was a guy who kept having bruises that his construction worker friends thought were like barfights or something. His doctor had to keep giving him pain pills or something, so he went to his house to see what was wrong, and it turned out his wife had him tied up and was S&Ming him a lot. He just didn't want to tell his friends about it. My wife remembered the part where the TV wife exclaimed "He loves it!" and she wanted to do it to me. When she called me and told me she wanted to do it (I was out of town) it had an extreme effect on me.

    It never really panned out though. Probably because we had NO equipment whatsoever, so we just did normal stuff. (We still only have Velcro cuffs that we got from a local sex shop).

    There was another time, earlier than that, that she caught me at meanbitches or something because of autocomplete on the address bar. She was mad and wanted to tie me to the bed but I was a bit scared to let her do it, because I never been caught before. Later she said what she would have done would be to tie me and leave me there alone while she went out shopping for clothes. In retrospect maybe I should have let her.

    So she does have a bit of leaning toward doing it. So I guess my further question is, does anyone have any ideas about how to cultivate that desire in her? Like what sorts of things do dominant women like about tying up men? Do they just do it because their men ask them to do it?

    Also, anyone else have any good ideas about some kind of game or thing we can do that makes the bondage more "real"?
     
  5. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    To make it more of a competition, each of you needs to wager something. If you can't get untied, she wins a prize, but if you can get out, you win a prize. Each prize has to be something the other doesn't want to forfeit. That will help make it more real, and will give her an incentive to do a good job with tying you up.

    I think you want to have a conversation with your wife about helping learn to be more dominant with you. There are four major sphere of bdsm play: control, bondage, pain, and humiliation/verbal abuse. I think it might help for her to explore control more, because that will help her be more dominant general. Control means basically she controls the shots, and gets to give orders you have to obey. This can range from her deciding what sex positions to use and demanding that you go down on her (or whatever else she wants) to you having to treat her like a queen out of the bedroom to get what you want in the bedroom. Most non-sub men and women naturally enjoy the idea of having a partner who gives them what they want sexually, so this ought to appeal to her on some level.

    Dominance means different things to different people. Some dom women like being the Bitch Goddess, the cruel ball-breaker in the leather corset. Others like being the Queen, the regal women with a servant, or perhaps even the Femme Fatale, the sexy vixen. Ask her what sorts of things about female dominance she finds arousing. What kind of dominant activities will make her feel attractive, powerful, and sexy, and then find ways for her to express those feelings in a bdsm fashion. There's a lot of room for fantasy here--she doesn't have to look like Angelina Jolie in order to enjoy dressing and acting like an Angelina Jolie action heroine, if that's what's turns her on. And when she pretends to be Angelina Jolie (or whatever), play into that scene in a way that's consistent with being submissive. When she does something dominant, give her positive reinforcement by showing that it turns you on. This will help her feel more confident acting the part. It's ok to exaggerate your response a little bit--don't fake it completely, but play it up enough that she can tell she's doing something right. After the scene, tell her what you enjoyed about and let her know that she did a good job and include a few suggestions about what she could have done that would have made the scene better. And ask her how she felt, if she thought about doing something but held back. Doms often have "I can't possibly demand THAT" moments, where they think of something but are afraid the sub will baulk. So if she admits that she thought about pissing on you (or whatever), let her know that you would accept that next time (assuming you would).

    One of the standard refrains on this site is that bdsm requires communication. Tell her your fantasies and ideas, ask for hers, think up ideas for scenes with her, and discuss things afterwards.
     

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