HELP...I am student looking for information

Kor · Apr 25, 2012

Smallest said:
I know that many subs or doms were abused, but there's nothing showing it's any more common than with a vanilla person.

I know that question can be a sore spot, but consider that by asking it he

A) obtains independent data to compared to "everyone knows" or "reputable sources say" data (which, unfortunately, isn't always correct)

B) obtains fairly detailed demographic data to compare to his answers

With a large enough data set, he might find out that the incidence of abuse (bearing in mind "abuse" is a very slippery term, so the real answer he's getting is "I think I have been abused") might be different between doms, subs, or switches, or that it's different between gay and hetero orientations, or is linked to the age that you became interested in BDSM. Or the data might show there's no meaningful correlation at all.

The questionnaire may be a bit simplistic, but it's not entirely bad. It's all to easy to frame questions to get the answers you want to hear, even if you're not doing it intentionally. Designing a questionnaire isn't as easy as it looks. In fact, a good example is the Kinsey Reports about human sexual behavior. Originally taken as absolute fact, nowadays it's know the way the questions were presented probably skewed the answers, rendering a huge (and expensively obtained) dataset much less reliable and useful than originally thought.

123comeseeme · Apr 25, 2012

Sorry

Hello, this is the student replying back to all the responses that I received. I genuinely appreciate the time you all took to respond to the questions. This gave me a better insight of the subculture. It seems as though I offended some people of the BDSM community (which was not my intention whatsoever). I apologize if some of the questions touched a "nerve". However, I am a student and I am LEARNING about this subculture. Instead of bashing me, I would prefer if you would educate me further on my ignorance of BDSM. In contrast, your opinions are helping me with gaining further knowledge !

Thank you!

By the way, I am a female

Smallest · Apr 25, 2012

I don't think anyone means it entirely in a bashing manner. But a little sarcasm, or a small rant about why it bothers can (and apparently have) show what's going right/wrong.

You're welcome to ask more general or specific questions, and to read through some of the other threads that might enlighten you- perhaps the FAQ.

Knots · Apr 25, 2012

123comeseeme said:
Hello, this is the student replying back to all the responses that I received. I genuinely appreciate the time you all took to respond to the questions. This gave me a better insight of the subculture. It seems as though I offended some people of the BDSM community (which was not my intention whatsoever). I apologize if some of the questions touched a "nerve". However, I am a student and I am LEARNING about this subculture. Instead of bashing me, I would prefer if you would educate me further on my ignorance of BDSM. In contrast, your opinions are helping me with gaining further knowledge !

Thank you!

By the way, I am a female

I wasn't in any way bashing, and I don't honestly think that was the stance anyone took.

As Smallest highlighted, you'll find people in the BDSM community who have been abused as children. However, you'll find people in knitting societies who were abused as children, too.

A better question* may have been "do you have any positive/negative childhood experiences which you relate your fetish(es) to?", as you can have a fetish for anything under the sun (indeed, including the sun) so someone may have a really interesting story about how they acquired a fetish for making their submissives pop balloons**. As this avoids the negative assumption (of BDSM being linked with abuse) and facilitates you exploring how people feel/understand their fetishes more.

Hope this helps.

*I have thought this up in 5 minutes, so it may have flaws in it too. Drafting survey questions should actually be a pretty rigorous process.
**I had a conversation with a friend who does indeed have this fetish.

Kor · Apr 26, 2012

A better question* may have been "do you have any positive/negative childhood experiences which you relate your fetish(es) to?"

I like the way that's phrased. It asks a question without trying to bias the answer.

Downside it, it requires an essay-type response, and while those can be very precise and meaningful, it can be hard to turn them into tabular data.
To extract maximum value from the responses, you'd have to match them against a matrix of allowable values.

sebastian · Apr 27, 2012

Aibo: Here's the thing: the dividing line between bdsm and abuse is very thin. 1) Virtually everything I do to a sub during play as pleasure is something an abusive parent or spouse could do as cruelty. 2) What separates bdsm from abuse is consent, but some doms and subs want to minimize the consent as much as possible. 3) To a vanilla bystander, perceiving the different between a dom playing with a sub and an abusive person tormenting a spouse can be incredibly difficult.

We understand that these two things are radically different, but to someone like 123comeseeme, who evidently knows very little about bdsm, it is an entirely reasonable question to ask if there is some connection between bdsm and abuse. And, in fact, I would argue that scientifically, it's a fair thing to ask if an experience of abuse as a child might in some one predispose one to enjoying bdsm as an adult. Enough subs have mentioned being victims of abuse as children that I suspect there is some connection, although I'm not enough of a psychologist to know if my suspicions have real merit. So I think the question is a reasonable one. You don't think it's a reasonable question. But that means that two experienced kinksters have a disagreement about exactly the issue she was curious about, which in itself proves that the question is valid, even if it's not well-phrased.

And I think it's an exaggeration to suggest that the implication of the question is that bdsmers are child molestors. That's one possible conclusion one could draw from the question, but certainly not the only one--one might just as easily conclude that bdsm is a way to heal the scars of childhood abuse by converting trauma into pleasure. We're sensitive that the idea that bdsmers are abusive because we've run into it in various media and perhaps in our personal lives, but there's no need to borrow trouble by assuming offense where none seems to have been intended.

Again, remember that 123 is a student (maybe high school, maybe college), is following the instructions of a teacher, and is either vanilla or is kink-curious but has no real experience or exposure to BDSM yet. Jumping on her for innocently asking a question and not having the experience to pose the question in a more sophisticated way is just asking for her to assume that kinky people are either assholes or wildly oversensitive. A far better reaction, in my opinion, is to educate her on the flaws in her questions and the problematic assumptions she's making. That's how learning happens.

123comeseeme · Apr 27, 2012

Thank you

ok, so the correct way to ask is "Have any past physical/emotional abuse contributed to your fetishes? I am sorry I offended or ASSUMED. I was actually on the opposing side of abuse being correlated with BDSM and I was trying to explain that. Furthermore, I learned from this mistake

Knots · Apr 27, 2012

Kor said:
I like the way that's phrased. It asks a question without trying to bias the answer.

Downside it, it requires an essay-type response, and while those can be very precise and meaningful, it can be hard to turn them into tabular data.
To extract maximum value from the responses, you'd have to match them against a matrix of allowable values.

Indeed, I am aware of this downside.

Aibo · Apr 27, 2012

123comeseeme said:
ok, so the correct way to ask is "Have any past physical/emotional abuse contributed to your fetishes? I am sorry I offended or ASSUMED. I was actually on the opposing side of abuse being correlated with BDSM and I was trying to explain that. Furthermore, I learned from this mistake

Yes that is a better way of putting it, and no I was not altogether insulted by your questions. Irritated is a better word.

But as our friend Kor the klingon have pointed out already. the questions you asked do not give any actual insight into the BDSM inclination or life. They were just too general - therefore my sarcasm.

The fact is that within the BDSM sub-culture or society, you find people of all walks of life, and various styles to approach this.
Good people, bad people, the players who do this once a month in public, others who are entirely private. Those who are just all interested in getting laid in a kinky way, those who attend gangbangs, and those who are extremely faithful and romantic about this.

I think the distribution between those are about the same as for the larger vanilla society. But with a slight inclination to be more honest and reliable, we do often share a secret to keep against a society that do not quite understand us.
We know we're different, and keeping that secret makes some avoid drugs and alcohol. So we might have a bit more abstainers, also for that reason, some get a bit neurotic, many live in a lie. They do not show their true selves even to close friends. I been there myself until I came out of the closet, and what a relief that were.

But yes the notion of being anti-social were one other thing that ticked me.
I rather say it is the opposite. For reasons mentioned above, I think we are more inclined to seek out likeminded people. Some guys have verbal diarrhea when they attend the first time.
So we do have BDSM organisations that serves a social function, and we bond very closely with some, and that regardless of gender or inclination.

I am certain you can find societies who could confirm the worst nightmares and most colourful stories you ever heard.
But also groups who are extraordinary friendly, yet follow a very strict codex of behaviour.
I happen to belong one of the latter. Since I am inclined both for being monogamous and prefer order over chaos. ....that with the exception for my taste in music which is the darkest variety of metal you can imagine. But that might be a fact in itself to consider, that we can be as complex and contradictory as any other non-kink person also.

Foreverbunny91 · May 2, 2012

1. At what age did you discover BDSM?

I learned about it when I was 13, but I thought it was repulsive... Well, at least when females were being submissive. Then when I Was 18 I started learning more about my sexuality. Now I understand more about other's kinks and am more accepting.

2. Is BDSM a lifestyle or an activity?

For me, it's an activity, but for many others it's a lifestyle.

3. What is your sexual orientation?

I am heteroflexible.

4. What is your BDSM orientation?

Hmmm... I consider myself a submissive, but to be exact, I am a "switch" and a "little girl." (Google Daddy Doms and their little girls.)

5. At what age did you start to experiment with sexual activities?

Depends on what you define as sexual

Freud says that breastfeeding is sexual. I would say 13, but I didn't actually have sex until I was 16.

6. Do you think that in later years you will have more or less BDSM activity?

More.

7. Do you feel that BDSM is anti-social?

It's quite the opposite!! It can actually be quite a social activity- much like knitting circles. There's munches and other BDSM events that draw many people. People, as you can probably tell from here, don't only socialize with BDSMers that they are interested in playing with. I socialize with other little girls and Daddies on Fetlife, and I will talk about BDSM to any kinksters I meet. And since it fosters communication, socialization and many positive social skills, it is quite pro-social.

8. What is the most common BDSM activity that you do?

Ropes, spanking and baths... And yes, bubble baths are part of my play sessions.

9. Were you sexually or physically abused in your childhood?

Nope. And although this is quite offensive to ask, you should maybe do some research on this with scholarly articles... I just don't advise asking kinksters if they were sexually abused. You would not ask people if they were sexually abused if you were studying knitting circles, so you shouldn't do it here, either.

10. Do you think BDSM is dangerous?

It can be VERY dangerous... But actually, many kinksters are among the most knowledgeable people in sexual safety that I've ever met. Who else can tell you how to deal with blood borne pathogens or how to treat rope burns?? Or which things you should NOT put in your anus?

I've been hurt more having vanilla sex than I've ever been hurt doing BDSM stuff. (This is not counting the bruises and rope burns that I was planning on getting, though!)

**ADD: OH YES!! And I thought you may find this interesting...

I'm a submissive female- meaning it turns me on to have a man order me around, pull my hair, cum on me and treat me like a piece of meat.

I'm also a feminist. Male chauvenists disgust me.

I'm a "little girl"- meaning I like having a man role play as my Daddy and treat me like their "daughter."

I also am an aspiring social worker and plan on helping lock up quite a few child molesters before I die.

I have a rape, prostitution and sex slave fantasy.

Rape, prostitution and sex trafficking are major issues that I'm interested in and plan on volunteering to help sex trafficking victims. I've cried over the stories I've read about these women and children, and it disgusts me that anyone thinks this is OK.

So, IMO, this says something about BDSM. We're not sickos. We simply have sexual interests that society has deemed unacceptable. Rape, prostitution, DLG sex, female submission and slavery are sexy ONLY WHEN IT'S CONSENSUAL. I'm pretty sure that any REAL kinkster would never endorse anything that wasn't consensual- or done with minors... And a lot don't endorse real incest or beastiality.

**ADDADD: And I agree with Sebastion, you guys. Please remember that you're representing ALL OF US. She's going to think we're oversensitive, exclusive jerks if you jump down her throat like that. She's never been exposed to BDSM. Think about this from her point of view. We get off from tying eachother up, beating eachother and shitting on one another among other delicious things. She's going to make some harsh assumptions. That's OK. At least she's trying to CHANGE those assumptions. Think about it that way. Unlike a lot of the vanilla world, she realizes that she doesn't know much about us. (Please excuse the exclusive dialogue.) She wants to learn more. We should welcome her with open arms and help her!!

HELP...I am student looking for information

Kor

Member

123comeseeme

New Member

Smallest

Moderator

Knots

Member

Kor

Member

sebastian

Active Member

123comeseeme

New Member

Knots

Member

Aibo

Member

Foreverbunny91

Member

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