Devotion Issues

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by praefect, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. praefect

    praefect Member

    I had a nice chat last night with my lady friend. She was in the sub headspace, totally, and while I enjoyed it and got a chance to stroke my evil streak, when talking about limits the phrase "whatever you wish" makes me very uneasy. As does the phrase "I trust you" in the context of how far I can take her.

    I can't really explain why. I know it's not that I have some very dark impulses in me I should be afraid of. I don't.... I think ;)

    I think it may be that level of devotion.

    In my previous relationship it was a balance. There was playtime and there was "not playtime" where we argued about who got the remote (her), who put the dishes in the fridge and breakfast in the sink (me) and what we should do about her son not doing good in school (panic). There was a partnership with ups and downs.

    This relationship now is totally unbalanced in comparison. It's still in the starting gate, but if all goes well, does that ever change? There's just... my will. I know that to her it's not just a game and that to me, in the past, it was. I want to take that part more seriously with her, I'm looking forward to it, exploring that part of myself, including the responsibility it entails... but ... why does that make me uneasy?
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  2. Martello

    Martello Member

    Well, it's out of your norm- that's could the start. Also maybe the over all responsibility might be a lot to pretty much have thrown into your lap. Also, possible that you don't trust yourself. Personally I wouldn't really want s Sub to be a Sub 24/7. A relationship has to be 50/50 for me until the door is shut. I wouldn't be uncomfortable as I would be turned off. This is a whole other level of experience. You can go pretty far with it but without some kind of conversation insofar as what you expect in a relationship - you might not want it to last.

    But hey it's a new relationship, one way other another. So really the whole feeling out of yourselves and one another is pretty normal.
  3. praefect

    praefect Member

    I vagely remember that feeling. While it's been a very long time for me I don't think that's it, it being a new relationship. And I should put relationship in quote marks here, since it's more a playdate sort of deal. If this weekend goes well there will be another, and another after that I imagine. I'm not looking to get into another serious relationship for the forseable future. She knows this of course.

    ... then of course... the last time I said this things didn't go as planned.

    Anyways, while my contact with her has turned into a 24/7 like kind of deal, it's not actually 24/7. I don't think I could handle that.

    It is out of my norm though, that's true. In more ways then one. And not trusting myself... I'm going to have to ponder that a bit.

    By the way, what does "until the door is shut" mean? On which side of that door is your significant other when it is shut? I'm not sure how to interpret that :)
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  4. Martello

    Martello Member

    The bedroom door my friend. Once where in the bedroom, their ass belongs to be.
  5. praefect

    praefect Member

    Ah yes, the way the gods of old intended it to be.
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  6. Sparrow69

    Sparrow69 Moderator

    The same thing you are talking of fearing is exactly what I push my slaves towards. Blind devotion and blind trust can be very powerful, and those that have it can feel very rewarded (even more so) when they feel like their own needs are being met, but are also thoroughly happy to meet your needs for the sake of being happy for making you happy... if that makes any sense.

    I'm going to assume by reading your post that you are in a relationship with this person and that is why it makes you uneasy. You subconsciously view this person as a partner, and as such, society has forced a sense of equals morality upon you that makes you feel "bad" for forcing subservience upon her. As yourself this... if you were dating someone else and this BDSM arrangement was strictly professional, would you feel bad for taking her to a place of ultimate bliss and trust, or would you charge more for that service?

    Think about it honestly....
  7. praefect

    praefect Member

    I did... you did make me think.

    I've always thought of it as getting satisfaction through empathy, so I know exactly what you mean.

    A relationship, yes, a partnership, no. At best, friends.

    I understand where you're coming from, but no, I don't feel bad about forcing subservicence on her, partly because that's not how I see it. I see her need, so dominating is as much giving as it is taking, which is how I see submission as well. Two things complementing each other beautifully. I guess in that sense I actually do see it as a partnership after all. But not one bound by the rules of social niceties.

    But I think I know why now. Pretty sure. 2 more days. When she told me these things I should have been happy, given card blanche I should have been. It's what I want. So why am I worried? Because there's a part of me that's afraid it's going to screw it all up :)
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  8. monocrome

    monocrome Member

    i would imagine it makes you uneasy because it is a HUGE responsibility for someone to say "here's the entirety of my will to do with as you please." i would also caution you that, while these are aparently playdates and you have aparently said to her that you don't want a long term, i have never really come across anyone willing to give themselves up that way (when it comes down to reality, not just in negotiations) that doesn't think there is some possibility of something longer term.
  9. subspace

    subspace Member

    I have to totally agree with monocrome on this one. In my early days I had a very had time separating out my feelings for my Dom's. Even though there may have been an understanding from the beginning that the relationship was not to be long term, I had the tendency to fall head-over-heels once a deep level of submission was reached. It was very difficult for me to draw the line. Could this be what is making you a bit uneasy praefect?
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  10. praefect

    praefect Member


    If she has hopes for a long term commitment on my part,... no, she can't. Impossible. She knows that my long term goals and her don't mesh.

    She a smart women and she has a lot of self control. I can't really imagine her setting herself up for a painful situation like that.
  11. subspace

    subspace Member

    I don't see it as a matter of self control, our emotions can override our logical side in intense relationships.
    Sorry praefect if I missed the mark on this one, just speaking from personal experience. :rolleyes:
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  12. praefect

    praefect Member

    Well... it is NOW :p
  13. praefect

    praefect Member

    Sorry for the delay, my internet cut out.

    That's my personal experience as well. But that experience is so dated. I mean, seriously, how else would a 19 year old end up in a relationship with a 40 year old women with two kids if he didn't throw out all reason at some point, to the point of clinical insanity.

    I just sort of hoped that... that during the the last 8 years stuff like that became less of a problem than it was in my teens.
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  14. monocrome

    monocrome Member

    she does not have a lot of self control while she is giving it all to you, which is sometimes a way to justify ones feelings and wants for more than what is supposed to be there (also a convenient way to not have to take responsibility for things if they don't work out).

    also, this phrase concerns me: "she knows that my long term goals and hers don't mesh." just something to think about. if they don't mesh... why enter into this? it sounds like someone is going to get hurt.

    but then again, i am the type to give utterly and completely and have made the mistakes i am talking about, so it is possible i am just internalizing this discussion too much.
  15. praefect

    praefect Member

    We're both seeking fun and we're both seeking new experiences, that much I know. The experiences she is after are on different level those that I am after, but that's another story. And we like each other. A commitment though requires love. Love requires time. The levels of love that I am used to, they at least require time - face time -, to develop. Does her level of "like" and trust extend into something more than that? I don't know. I don't think so, but I don't know.


    Imagine for a second that you're deeply in love. You love everything about your partner, you even love all his flaws, and you know them all. You know him well enough you can predict most of his reactions to any one thing. And then you sit down with him and open and honestly talk about the future and you realize that after 8 years together you're futures are not compatible at all. You set a date on which to end the relationship. A rational choice that is talked over and planned by both sides. While both of you are working on your own respective futures you still live together, you still feel all that love, and you laugh at dumb jokes and you are touched when you see him choke up at a stupid movie you only watched to spent some time with him. At night sometimes you read to him until he falls asleep with a content smile on his face, telling you he loves you before he's out. You're happy, because you've mastered the ability to stay in the now. He hasn't, and to him there are days that feel like a long goodbye, that crush him, and you do your best to sooth his pain. It's for the best you tell him. And he agrees, but it still kills him, and seeing that, it kills you. Then the day comes when your ways part and you know that you will not see each other for a very long time. Maybe never again. And you kiss him goodbye, and you thank him, and you cry together, and it feels like you are reaching into your own chest ripping your heart out - but you know it's the right thing to do, so you do it.

    That's where I'm coming from.

    My emotions overwrote my reasoning when I was a teen. I grew past that. I suppose that's why I expect others to be able to do the same.

    But you did make an excellent point there. She doesn't have that level of self control while with me. That would be the point of the entire exercise now, wouldn't it. :)

    This is new territory for me. I don't know where it will lead, but she's still a person with the ability to use her god given senses and her experience to judge a situation. She still has to be responsible for her own emotional well being, and if she sees that playing with me would cause her harm, stop doing that. And if she doesn't, learn from falling on her ass.

    Someone may get hurt. That's a possibility, but that's always a possibility where intimacy of any kind is involved and shouldn't be a reason not to enjoy yourself, to live a little in the now.

    Really, I'm only worried about screwing this up somehow at this point. Having her arrive at my doorstep and just go blank. I already threw out my entire plan. Throughout this week I learned that planning the way I used to do it doesn't work when you can't predict exactly what your playpartner is going to do.

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