Confused Sub Looking for Reassurance

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Sir's pretty pet, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Sir's pretty pet

    Sir's pretty pet New Member

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    I am a female sub in a relationship with a dominant male and a switch female.

    The 3 of us started out as friends. Sir had pursued Ma'am for a while, but she expressed that she was not interested in a relationship, so they remained friends. I met them a month or so later. Sir and I had a chance conversation about bdsm during which I joked about my interest in the subject. We had sex. I liked him. I confessed my sincere interest in bdsm, and he said "Well, you're in luck because I happen to be an experienced Dom."

    Pitter patter, pitter patter. Be still, my heart.

    We started dating. I threw myself so wholeheartedly into learning everything I could about bdsm, submission, dominance, and all of the bells and whistles that go with it. Sir was encouraging and delighted in my enthusiasm and I flourished.

    In an attempt to shorten what could be a long story, after a few months, Ma'am was added to our relationship.

    Ma'am is dominant to me, but submissive to Sir, so we have a definitive hierarchy. Ma'am is as of now a switch (I think she is more of a dominant innately), but she has expressed her desire to explore being submissive. Sir is easing her into some more submissive situations.

    I love Ma'am almost as much as I love Sir. To say I love her the same would be untrue because I have given Sir my everything already. I'm finding our relationship hard. Sir says I'm more of a lifestyle sub in that I want him in control all of the time, and Ma'am is more of a scene sub because she only wants him in control in a sexual playtime setting.

    I'm getting confused. I have rules, Ma'am doesn't (which I like). If I don't do as I'm told, I get in trouble. Ma'am is never in trouble. I'm always submitting, she never is. I used to have daily tasks, well still do, but Sir doesn't enforce all of them anymore. I know he does not in any way like "brats". At the same time, I am struggling with keeping my submissive mindset/needs met (I am not sure how to describe this) when Ma'am comes to me as an equal to discuss some facet or another about a scene or task she was given, and then turns around and doms the shit out of me when I try to get out of homework. I support her in her desire to switch, but I'm having a hard time seeing her as the submissive equal and the dominant mistress.

    They both love their pet (me) very much, and are constantly praising me, and telling me how proud they are, but I can't help but feel like maybe my submissiveness is a burden. I know it has to be chore (albeit a fun one) to upkeep me so to speak constantly. Do they like keeping things in playtime? I don't feel like they do, but they like it that way between the two of them. Am I just insecure for no reason or should I talk to them about me trying to be less submissive outside of playtime?

    I should clarify that this is my first bdsm relationship, and although I know the basics well, the power exchange and emotional side of things is thrilling, but I am still sometimes uncertain.
  2. Nairbrother

    Nairbrother New Member

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    Communication is really of that up most importance. I think you really should tell them exactly what you just told us.
  3. Lillith

    Lillith New Member

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    I agree with Nairbrother. You owe it to them to be honest with them. It will help you with this situation. Good luck!
  4. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    SPP: It sounds as if the problem is not between you and Sir, it's between you and Ma'am. Ma'am seems to be confusing you by not making it clear when she is your equal and when she is your superior. I think that the heart of the problem is with Ma'am. She either is unsure what she wants or is trying to have things both ways (she wants to be an equal and a dom with you at the same time). The result of this is that she's causing ripples in your relationship with Sir.

    So you should sit down with both of them and have a conversation as equals. (You do have periodic 'equal time discussions', right? If not, you probably should, maybe once a month, to allow for full discussion of just this sort of issue). Explain what you said to us, and ask them for clarification. Explain that you don't know how to relate to Ma'am and that this is causing you to be unsure how serious they are about being your full-time doms.

    It sounds to me like you need some unambiguous rules for how you and Ma'am relate to each other. The tricky part is probably going to be that Ma'am doesn't want rules for anything outside of play time, while you do want rules outside play time. Shes a switch; you're not. She's apparently mostly interested in bedroom BDSM, while you want something more like lifestyle BDSM. Finding a balance between those two needs might be a challenge. But it can be done.
  5. sweetling91

    sweetling91 Member

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    talking really is a very good way to solve problems and conflicts. i can just say that i have firsthand experience in what could happen if you don't talk to the persons involved with your problem. it's not a pretty picture, so you should really talk this out with your dom and domme
  6. Sir's pretty pet

    Sir's pretty pet New Member

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    Thank you all for your advice (I realize this comes a bit after the fact).

    I gave Sir the link to this post and asked him to read it. He sympathized and understood what kind of problem I was having. Ma'am is a little difficult to constructively criticize because she seems to take the worst possible outlook on things and will take serious offense to the most random harmless things, so Sir kind of talked to me about how I could deal with the issues I was having with her.

    Mostly he felt that I was not giving her time to adjust to something new because while I have taken to "the lifestyle" quickly and enthusiastically, not everyone reacts that way. I understand, and I let it go.
  7. Sir's pretty pet

    Sir's pretty pet New Member

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    Nowadays Ma'am is different.

    We had a bit of a break from our almost constant intimacy because my college load got a little intense for a while. After Christmas break when I spent most of my time with my family, Ma'am was quite distant, and not long after the break, she pretty much disappeared for two weeks.

    She's back now, but very different. Beforehand she was always very firm with me, and now she is not at all.

    A couple of nights ago we had a sex night planned. Sex night was specifically for the purpose of getting naked and getting off. I show up and make small talk. She wasn't really giving me any signs that she had a specific goal or event in mind, so I asked if she wanted to watch some videos I found online recently that I found sexy. She agreed. I asked her if she had any new ones when I ran out, and she shared one.

    At this point there is a lot of self touching but she hasn't made any moves on me so to speak at all. It was awkward. In an attempt to alleviate the awkwardness, I made a move on her. She responded by asking me for directions and orders and wouldn't touch me. She said things like "Not unless you want me to." She didn't want anything other than for me to top her.

    I did. What else was I to do? I missed her so much, and I wanted to have a good time with her, so I went completely out of my character and top'd the shit out of her. She had a great time. I got to give her the pleasure she wanted, but it felt like an empty orgasm for me. There was no excitement or passion for me. I was just uncomfortable and not really enjoying myself at all other than pleased that Ma'am was letting me pleasure her.

    I felt fake, and I wished Sir was there to fix it.

    This is the second time something like this happened between us during intimate moments.

    I feel guilty now because I'm afraid if we get intimate again she will want the same thing, and I don't want to be that way. I'm afraid if I tell her I don't like what we did that she will leave, and that would make Sir very sad.

    Am I looking for advice? Maybe. I guess so. I don't know.

    Mostly just sharing because I don't have anyone else to tell that will understand something of the kind of relationship I am in.
  8. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    One of my central principles for BDSM is that it is about honesty and openness. As doms and subs we get to reveal our genuine selves to our partners. So when I play with a boy, I emphasize that he gets to tell me whatever kinky desires and fantasies he has, and that I will not shame him for them; I'll always listen, but sometimes I'll explain that I'm not into a particular fantasy (like scat) or that I won't do it for ethical reasons (like making him blow a dog). And during sex, I encourage him to open up, reveal his passions, not hold back, and follow his instincts, even if they take him out of his proscribed role as sub (my current slave has started biting me during play). The idea here is to allow my boy to simply learn who he truly is without fear that I will criticize, shame, or reject him. And the boy is allowed to tell me any fears or concerns he has. Conversely, this gives me room to admit my desires, fears, and weaknesses to him. So we're gradually lowering our boundaries and discovering who the other one is.

    I think perhaps you and Ma'am need approach things this way. It sounds to me like Ma'am has a lot of desires that either confuse her or make her feel like she shouldn't reveal them. She may feel that you will shame her or reject her for her submissive desires, so she's holding back, trying to get her needs met without saying what she needs, and otherwise doing things that confuse you.

    So try this: have some time with her where the two of you are lying in bed or cuddling on a couch and ask her to tell you a fantasy. It can be anything she fantasizes about; no matter what she says, you have to accept it and encourage it ("ok, what happens after I tie you up? Do I spank you?"). The idea here is to create an environment in which she feels that it is safe for her to admit what she wants. During the process you can masturbate her, caress her, or lightly kiss her, but don't make sex the focus. Once the fantasy is done, talk to her about it; tell her which parts turned you on and which parts you might want to play out with her some day. You can tell her that something didn't turn you on, but make it clear that's just your feeling; it's not wrong that she wants to get tied up or whatever, it just isn't your kink. It's all about giving her permission to have whatever desires she has. Because once she feels ok admitting to her desires, and you feel comfortable admitting to yours (maybe after she tells her fantasy, reverse the process and tell her one of yours), then you two can talk openly about how her desires and your desires are coming out in the relationship and where the problems are coming up.

    Keep in mind that in any relationship problem, there are usually two components: you and the other person. Part of the issue here is that she wants things that are confusing you, but another part of the problem is that you want her to be dominant and she is apparently reluctant to be dominant all the time. So your need for her to be dominant may be making her feel guilty or shameful for her submissive side. Both of you are, in different ways, feeding her reluctance to clear about what she wants.

    One warning when you embrace full honesty: sometimes you hear things you don't want to hear. Sometimes a partner reveals a fantasy that repulses you, or tells you something scary, like they're not sure they love you or maybe they're not so dominant after all. Honesty and openness bring a risk of getting hurt. But that's a risk you take in any relationship, so my feeling is that honesty and openness make getting hurt less likely.
  9. Sir's pretty pet

    Sir's pretty pet New Member

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    I understand the need to talk to her honestly and openly about everything. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what to say when she tells me she wants me to dominate her, since I am pretty sure that is something that will come up. I don't want to out right say I'm not wired that way, and shut her fantasies with me off, but at the same time it's not really something I want either. I don't want to lose her over this.

    I think I need to figure out what I am okay with doing before we have that talk. For example: I feel icky giving her orders, but I wouldn't mind fucking her ass. I would totally bite the shit out of her nipples, but I wouldn't be okay with flogging them. I'd love to ride her face, but telling her when to come is not something I want to be in charge of.

    I feel like I wouldn't be complete without the flogging, and orgasm control, so how can I expect her to be? But on the same token, I love having rules/tasks outside of sex, and anytime Sir has tried to give them to her she just blatantly refused to do them when he said so. She takes this "I'll do it when I feel like it" attitude that is just-- not how it's supposed to be. At least for me I don't think it's right, and I don't think Sir does either because after the first 2 or 3 times of her refusing to do something he just doesn't give her tasks anymore.

    I just don't get her I guess. She flat out refuses to do what Sir tells her outside of the bedroom (sometimes, other times she does her task, but always in her time frame), gets onto me about homework/chores, but then wants me to Dom her when we are alone. I don't want to Dom at all, but to make her happy do I need to learn? Or is it just that she is making a mockery of everything I love about being submissive?

    I don't know if she needs to figure out her shit, or if I need to learn to accommodate her. Maybe we need to just agree on some sort of no d/s power play when we are alone, and only have that when Sir is with us too.
  10. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    Well, remember that we all have different capacities for power exchange. You want something in the vicinity of 24/7--lots of dominance outside the bedroom-- while she wants most of her power exchange restricted to the bedroom. You are pretty much a sub, while she's clearly a switch. So your instincts aren't entirely reliable when trying to understand what she wants. And, of course, she may not entirely understand what she wants.

    It might help you to separate top/bottom from dominant/submissive. She wants to be dominated, but that doesn't mean she's submissive. She may want to top from the bottom, which means that she wants to bottom while being dominated. In other words, when she orders you to spank her, she's being a dominant bottom, and you're being a submissive top. So rather than thinking in terms of you dominating her, think of you serving her needs by topping her. She's still in charge when you peg her or whatever.
  11. Sir's pretty pet

    Sir's pretty pet New Member

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    Topping from the bottom: Sir had me research that once before after a night I spent with Ma'am. I told him she switched on me and I played Domme, but he was skeptical. He never confirmed that he believed she was topping from the bottom because he wanted me to draw my own conclusions, but he never agreed that I was in charge of our scene either. I don't think he thinks I have a dominant bone in my body, lol.


    I guess there is the possibility that Ma'am is doing exactly that. That makes me look at everything we said and/or did the other night in a new light. I'm just getting really caught on the fact that she wanted me to tell her when to come. Can that be seen as her telling me what to tell her and thus confirming the topping from the bottom scenario? Or does it discount it?
  12. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    I think it could be read either way. The only one who knows what was really going on is Ma'am, and the only way to find out is to talk with her openly and directly about what she was doing.

    Most doms have a little bit of sub in them; I sure do. There are times when I just want to not be the one in charge. But I've never had someone dom me the way I wanted them to. I always keep wishing they'd be a little rougher, call me names more aggressively, or whatever. So I want to tell them how to give me what I want, which sort of defeats the purpose for me, so I just don't do it very much. That's topping from the bottom.

    Other doms are actually subs who haven't figured out what they want. They know they want to do power exchange, but for one reason or another it hasn't occurred to them that they want to be on the receiving end, rather than the giving end. I used to fantasize about cops all the time, usually being on the receiving end of their aggression. Then, right after I discovered my interest in BDSM, my mentor put me in a cop uniform and I suddenly thought "Wait--I get to BE the cop in my fantasy? Holy fuck!" And from that moment on, I was all about being the aggressor. Accepting one's submissive desires can be very difficult, especially for men and women who've always thought of themselves as strong, in-charge types. It can take a long time to realize that you can be strong and in-charge in your public life and totally submissive in private.

    And then there are switches, people who have a good dose of both dominant and submissive in them. Some of them just naturally move back and forth across that line, while others start out strongly attracted to one role and then gradually realize that the other side attracts them as well. Some of them can be entirely dominant with one person and entirely submissive with another, while others tend toward one role but occasionally play the other if that's what their partner requires or when the mood strikes them. And subbing occasionally can be good training for a dom, as well as a nice change of pace or stress relief.

    So I can't tell you if Ma'am is topping from the bottom, switching, or discovering that she's really a sub. Only she can tell you that, and she might need your help to figure it out.
  13. Sir's pretty pet

    Sir's pretty pet New Member

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    Thanks for the topping from the bottom clarification. I guess it's more of a continuum than a black and white case.

    I can see that you are right about Ma'am being the only one who can decide what she wants/is, and my speculating isn't going to get me anywhere. I'm just afraid of disappointing her, so I thought maybe if I could figure her out before she does, then there will be no room for her to be disappointed and she will be so happy that I solved it all before she even knew it was an issue.

    I'm going to have Sir read all of this over before I talk to her, and see if he agrees with my perceptions. Maybe he can help me with her, too.
  14. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

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    I can't stress enough how important basic communication is to a successful BDSM relationship. All relationships need it, but because BDSM has a complex relationship between what is said and what is meant, the first strategy for virtually every issue is to sit down and talk.

    I'm not sure what firomon is talking about either. My guess is he's just blathering to get up to 10 posts, which will let him post in some of the forums.
  15. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

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    I deleted it because that was my suspicion too (and he had exactly ten posts), and either way the closest thing I could assume he said was that Nairbrother had said everything, meaning his post wasn't helpful/new anyway.

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