can't tell if he's into bdsm

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by sweet n nasty, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. sweet n nasty

    sweet n nasty New Member

    hi i'm new here as of today.

    i'm confused coz for the past year i've been a pretty hardcore relationship with my partner and there's been a lot of domination and violence but i started off thinking it was wrong.
    i tried leaving him and found myself 'missing' his rough touch and so we are back together and it's clear to us now that i want to stay with him.
    so, he's the kinda violent type but is very very sweet and romantic too (he mixes it up) and the violence only goes so far and is usually only when he's angry anyway.
    So he's been saying so many things the last couple of years we've been together like to call him 'my king/master', he is into smelling everything inculding regularly smelling me in my crotch and my bum, he has given me punishments involving cold showers (with and without clothes on), locked me in small cupboards (spraying air freshner in there too when i didn't play nice), hit me with a wooden spoon, slipper other stuff, makes me sleep/walk around the house naked, etc etc etc i could go on all day....
    So now, i'm into pain and crave for him to be nasty with me so sometimes i deliberatly provoke him so he can discipline me.
    Sometimes he does and other times he won't take the bait and deliberatly doesn't give it to me...
    Anyways, so i've told him i think i'm a masochist and like me a sub to him and i've been diagnosed with that too! I told him i like the idea of him tying me up to have sex but he kinda looked a bit awkward and then when we did he didn't really do it properly and i was too embarrased to tell him.
    I just sent him naughty text today, the first telling him i was wearing a g string (i don't normally) and will every monday from now on, and then i sent him a picture of me in the g string....he replied to my first text without referring to the hint about the g string, and he didn't reply to my second text.
    Now i feel like a real slut or something....maybe i am....but i only feel like really naughty with him...i'm crazy to just to naughty things sometimes.

    Oh by the way, we have had sex in every postion possible pretty much (he's into that), and he's tied me up and led me around the house like a dog and tied me to the table and the bed and watched me try to untie myself. So he does like the tying up thing but looks like maybe not in the sexual way. He's always taking about giving me punishments and torture ones preferably when i don't don't do what he wants. He said he loves it when i wear g strings. He has teased me with orgasms (not letting me have them sometimes), he has torn lothes off me (when he's been angry) we have had sex in the car in public (inc oral) and we have already role played once but he was a bit awkward about it.

    He said he doesn't mind us doing a bit of bdsm but we should build up slowly. I got the imprssion he was trying to brush me off. But maybe we are already doing it and i have no idea.

    Help!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  2. This is the part of your whole post that captured my attention. "the violence only goes so far and is usually only when he's angry anyway."

    BDSM is not done out of anger. If it's not consensual, then it is abuse, not kink. Too many people either abuse or suffer from abuse under the guise of BDSM. Any true Dom always has their subs best interests at heart, even if they may happen to be inflicting pain at that moment. There is always safety, be is a safe toy, safe word, or prearranged limits. If the actions are coming out of anger, than they are not done with the subs well being in mind. Be it emotional or physical well being.

    Thats great that you feel youre a masochist and I wish you the best of luck in that respect. But, for a Dom to be in that space out of anger is a very dangerous situation.
     
  3. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    I entirely agree with MLML. I immediately noticed the same passage. It sounds to me like you are a natural masochist who has gotten involved with a man who has some abusive tendencies and you're trying to rationalize them by saying that it's really a BDSM relationship and not an abusive one. MLML is correct to say that the top should never be taking out anger on the bottom. Punishment is meant to train and correct the bottom, not to vent anger. Some gay relationships do involve the bottom being a whipping boy, but I think in a straight relationship there's simply too much risk of crossing into domestic violence.

    So my advice would be to take a very hard look at the way this guy treats you. Leave aside the fact that you enjoy the rough treatment and ask yourself if his treatment is about pleasing you or simply venting his anger and frustration. If it's the latter, he's not a dom, he's an abuser. Here's another test: if you told him in the middle of rough play that you are not enjoying it and would like to stop, would he stop? Do you have a safeword that would bring the play to a halt? A real dom will always stop if the sub uses the safeword or otherwise indicates that the play is not enjoyable. An abuser will not stop because he doesn't care about his partner's pleasure. Put another way, a dom will only do what the sub has already consented to allow. Can you withdraw consent, or do you have to accept whatever he chooses to do?
     
  4. sweet n nasty

    sweet n nasty New Member

    Thankyou for your reply MLML.

    After reading the first part of your post where you quoted me i suddenly started to cry out of fear that i'm wrong again.

    He hurts me only out of anger otherwise he is sweet. He doesn't do it to give me pleasure but to punish me and to vent his anger. I don't have a saftey limit or safe word because i don't have that choice. When he's angry he hurts me however he chooses and no matter if i beg for him to stop he won't. It only makes him 10 times angrier and i am left shaking uncontrollably because i am so scared he is going to kill me one of these days we fight.

    But i love this man so much and so i am trying desperatly to find out why he is like that. How he can be so wonderful and then so cruel. I have to try to make sense of it all.

    To make things even worse, before i came on this site i was actually in a forum for people in abusive relationships. When i first started to write about what was happening to me the other people said i was in a very dangerous situation like you said MLML. But then i started getting upset with them and started to defend my partner because i felt that there had to be an explanation for it all. But they became cruel to me and started bullying me and telling me that maybe i should be on a sm site like this one because i am a masochist and i am allowing him to hurt me and not choosing to walk away and/or stop it (anymore). I am only trying to justify.

    MLML i rely appreciate your reply but now it's even more complicated. He's not what i thought he was.
     
  5. sweet n nasty

    sweet n nasty New Member

    Sebastian, i know that you agree with MLML which helps to make this clearer for me because now two people from here agree that although i might be a mosochist, i am with a man who has abusive tendencies.

    You see the thing that confused me was that i thought that doms had abusive tendencies hence why they liked to be doms. Isn't that what it means? That they like to punish and control and hurt? Help me with this one because it is still a little unclear for me. Ok. So am i right in saying that this is an abusive relationship because he refuses to allow us to have a bdsm relationship knowing that that would give me the power to have a safe word and have some control?

    The other thing that confusing is that you said 'Punishment is meant to train and correct the bottom, not to vent anger.' Now, he is always going on about training me and making me learn how to behave (he calls me his wild horse that he needs to break in). So on the one hand he fits in the dom category but on the other hand the anger part - he says that he only gets angry like that at me when i make him crazy with something i've done that's bad. He doesn't want to hurt me but i make him so angry (that's what he says to me after we fight).

    Some gay relationships do involve the bottom being a whipping boy, but I think in a straight relationship there's simply too much risk of crossing into domestic violence. But isn't the sub being a wipping boy what bdsm is? Or is it about helping to arouse the sub too? Yes that must be it. It's not about venting anger like you said before. It is to help both people enjoy themselves.

    I did your first test leaving aside that i enjoy the rough treatment (which i learnt reading up on yesterday that may be based on the fact that he kinda raped me when i was a virgin so it is almost like now i am punishing myself (i started cutting myself this year) and re-inventing the scenario to take some control back).

    ask yourself if his treatment is about pleasing you or simply venting his anger and frustration. It is very rarely about pleasing me. The couple of times he has done things that i have asked (like the tying up) to please me, he has done it but in my opinion he deliberatly didn't do it properly so i get upset because i know he's playing with me (in a cruel mind game kinda way) and then when i do get upset he gets angry, hurts me and tells me to stop being spoilt and nasty to him. Then that's when he gets violent.

    Here's another test: if you told him in the middle of rough play that you are not enjoying it and would like to stop, would he stop? Do you have a safeword that would bring the play to a halt? No we have none of that. He doesn't want us to be into bdsm. He makes it sound kinda dirty or wrong but on the other hand i think it's about him not allowing me to have any control.

    However. there is another thing with this. If we are talking sex. If i don't like something or don't want to do something he will stop. He says so many times that he would never rape me. Although here's the thing. Sometimes (especially in the past) when he got really angry or frustrated at me, he would pick me up put me over his shoulder carry me to the bedroom, throw me on the bed and pretend to rape me but wouldn't actually do it. I used to thing that one day he would when he is really angry but it hasn't happened yet.

    So he doesn't really rape me sexually or anything. So if we are talking about bdsm sex, he's into being really gentle and sweet and loving and doesn't want to tie me up or 'hurt' me when it comes to sex. (Although he has mentioned that one of the things that turns him on is the idea of raping me - hence why i thought if i played more masochisitic for him, that i could help him with that fantasy but he won't play along with me). WHY?????

    He confuses me so much. Can any of you help me out with some of these other confusions?
     
  6. MLML and Sebastian are both right. This situation does sound extremely dangerous, not least because you are not being allowed a safeword or similar to end anything that gets too much for you. I would usually use the word 'play' to describe such activities, but in your case it is clearly anything but.

    If you are able to discover why your partner is the way he is, then things will be a lot clearer, but that is no excuse for him doing what he does, especially as he clearly has no consideration whatsoever for your personal safety. I wonder if he even has any idea of the potential harm he could cause.

    As has already been stated, the dominant partner should never, ever indulge in BDSM practices while in the grip of genuine anger. Pretend anger as part of a roleplay situation is one thing, but real anger will cloud a person's judgement to the point where anything they do could result in serious harm, perhaps as much for themselves as for you.

    If I were you, I would leave this man. It will be difficult as you are in love with him, but you need to be able to feel 100% safe with the person you are playing with, someone who, if they truly care about you, will be fully aware, and respectful, of the difference between causing hurt and causing harm.

    Good luck, and let us know how you get on :)
     
  7. So, Im going to try to address each point at a time. Sabastian, please feel free to correct anything I put in here as I am actually responding to questions addressed to you...

    The misconception that Dom's have abusive tendencies is just that, a misconception. On the contrary, a Dom seeks to bring pleasure to his sub. There is also a feeling of power involved, but, it s a power that is consensually given by the sub. The mantra of BDSM is SSC (Safe, Sane, Consentual). If any activity violates one of those principles, it is abuse, plain and simple. Yes, punishment may be given in order to assert Dominance over the submissive, but, no punishment is ever given without the subs consent, and even during a punishment, the rules of safe and sane still apply. The bottom line is NOTHING will ever happen that the sub does not wish to happen.

    Any Dom I know prides themselves first and foremost on the mastery of ones self before they can attempt to Master another. I completely agree with Sebastian on this one. Punishment is never done out of anger. There is usually a very thoughtful approach because the goal is never to "break" the sub, but to improve the sub in some way. Some of the most meaningful punishments I have had have simply been having to write an essay as to why something happened and my thoughts around it. That had a greater impact on my behavior than a whip or cane ever could.

    This one Im going to lightly skip over because I think Sebastian will have more to tell on the topic. But, my understanding is that male subs tend to be drawn to the humiliation and degradation aspects of BDSM more than female subs. Bey default, this creates a different dynamic is gay relationships.

    Plain and simple, this is abuse. There's no consent. This is not a planned scene. Its a mind fuck and physical abuse.

    Ask any Dom. The subs limits control the scene. Period. In fact, this is so much the case that many people try and debate who is really in control and consequently who is Dom and who is really sub.

    I feel the need to point out the total contradiction in the above 2 statements... Please reread side by side with out the nonsense of trying to justify and rationalize in between.



    Well, thats my 2 cents. Sebastian, again, sorry for jumping in on a response intended for you. Please fee free to disagree with anything I wrote in here.

    SnN - I think the other forum you were on had it right to begin with. You are in a dangerous situation and I suggest some counseling. This isnt something youre going to resolve in an online forum with a bunch of strangers.

    Im sorry.
     
  8. sweet n nasty

    sweet n nasty New Member

    Thankyou MLML. I believe you may be right. So many people i have asked, the other forum i mentioned, you guys, councillors, dv, friends, family, myself, everyone no matter who they are and what their turn ons in life are all say the SAME thing. He is as you say mind fucking me and what he does is abuse not at all for me to feel safe and happy but for him to feel happy and getting what he wants all the time. If not, i pay big time which mostly always leaves me shattered hence why i have tried becoming an alcoholic (didn't work because he beat the crap out of me) and why i started cutting and hitting and fucking myself to punish me for being such a crap partner sometimes.
     
  9. sweet n nasty

    sweet n nasty New Member

    I'm a housewife by the way at the age i should be out there studying or working. I have had jobs and have studied but he's so jealous of me being out there amongst other boys, making friends with girls, anything. We fight, next day i can't go coz i'm hurt or severly depressed or he literally will keep me hostage at home, lock the doors, hold me down, scare the shit out me. He threatened me with knives...the last time threatened to cut my eyes out and make me blind. He excessively possessive. Sick of councillors though coz they all tell me to leave him but you see he's really nice to me unless i do something stupid and i've tried to leave so many times and i can't. Thats why i'm masochist (according to my psychiatrist whom i'm seen twice and don't want to see anymore because he wants to begin exploring why i am so adament to keep punishing myself - staying with him to deliberatly make my life hell). By the way, i am so self destructive. I have ruined friendships, my relationship with my family. I only have him. To me it better than being alone or i might cut myself to shreds one day.
     
  10. TerribleT

    TerribleT Member

    I didn't intend this to be my first post but this situation really worries me. I know what you're looking for Sweet n Nasty. You won't get it by pissing someone off and getting beat for it. You're trying to manipulate this guy into playing your game That's a very big gamble and it's not necessary. There are plenty of guys who would give you what you need on a mutual basis...no question. You have much to offer. Not many women would encourage a man to explore his own sexuality the way you would.

    I was in a similar situation as you. The difference is, I'm a 225Lb Gulf War vet.
    My wife was violent and angry. She was going through a lot and I got to go through it with her. I got smacked around once in a while but i'm a big boy. I could have turned the tables quick if I felt like I was in real danger.
    We were young and insecure about sex, she more then me. I started subtly initiating sub/dom play, which she was uncomfortable with. It took years for her to open up and now it's ON! She's healthier for it too.

    Having said that, your relationship doesn't sound like mine at all. It sounds like you've found someone you can provoke into acting out something that resembles your game. Getting physically battered, raped and emotionally crushed is not what you need though! This sounds like a very big gamble to me too. I would feel better if you said you advertised yourself as a sub in the personals and dated strange men who agreed to sexually dominate you.

    Confusing battery with sexual domination may be the same trap my cousin has found herself in. It took motherhood to wake her ass up and now she's looking for out....for her kids sake!

    Please be careful and good luck to you.
     
  11. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    SnN, the more that I read what you have to say, the more I am convinced that this man is an abuser and not a true dom. And in fact, I'm starting to think that you might not actually be a masochist, simply a woman in an abusive relationship who is trying to make sense of the abuse heaped on her by interpreting it as a gesture of love. The victims of abuse frequently find ways to justify the abuse ("I made him angry, so I deserved it", "he's only like this when he drinks", "he loves me, so this must not be abuse"). Perhaps you have a masochistic side to you, but perhaps not. You're clearly deeply unhappy about what's happening. Cutting yourself doesn't make you a masochist. It means you're looking for some way to express or relieve your emotional pain.

    BDSM is about consensual power exchange. When I play with a man (and if it's not clear, I'm gay, so my experience is entirely based in how BDSM works between two men; there are many commonalities with straight BDSM, but also some important differences), I negotiate the power exchange with him before we ever start playing--days before, in some cases. I ask him what he wants me to do and what he doesn't want me to do. I enjoy inflicting pain on men, but only as long as I know that they are enjoying receiving the pain. I would never intentionally inflict non-erotic pain, and if the man indicates through his safeword that I've reached the limit of his ability to tolerate the pain and find it pleasurable, I stop immediately and switch to something else that I think he will enjoy. I would be deeply upset if I accidentally harmed him or did something he really objected to. Much of the pleasure that I derive from inflicting pain is knowing that I am giving the sub pleasure through pain. If a sub indicated to me that he didn't want any pain, I would either simply not play with him or leave pain play off the menu and focus on something else.

    As far as whipping boys are concerned, some male subs volunteer themselves for abuse as a way for their dom to relieve stress. I do online play with a sub named James who calls himself a 'full service cunt'. He enjoys the idea of being of service to me in any way that I enjoy. A week ago I came home from my job extremely stressed out. James allowed me to unload a torrent of verbal abuse on him because he knew that doing so would help me release my frustrations. Had we been together physically, he would have allowed me to paddle him, torture his nipples, and so on. But, and here is the difference between that situation and yours, James' gesture was essentially a gift to me, a voluntarily gesture to ease my tension. He enjoys being verbally abused, so he got something erotic out of it, and he loves feeling like he serves me. After I insulted and degraded him verbally, I felt an enormous sense of relief, and I was deeply grateful to James for offering this service to me. I feel a deep sense of affection toward him and in a way I'm humbled by what he offers me. I want, very badly, to meet his emotional needs and take care of him because of the way he is caring for my needs. As a gay dom, protecting and nurturing my subs is one of my major obligations.

    When I finish playing with a sub, we typically spend a good deal of time afterward unwinding from the emotional highs of the scene. I cuddle and caress him and feel quite tenderly toward this guy that I was abusing and paddling just a little while before. At the start of play, the sub willingly surrenders power to me or permits me to take it from him, and in the cuddling afterwards, I return the power to them so that we are equals again. In a more long-term relationship, the power isn't always returned, but that's because the sub has voluntarily entered into a relationship in which he has chosen to not be equal to his dom.

    Absolutely none of this seems to apply to you. This man has by your own admission raped you, struck you in anger, disregarded your sexual pleasure, threatened to maim you, and attempted to socially isolate you by eliminating your ability to maintain friendships, education, and jobs. Those are textbook signs of an abuser.

    Please leave this man. I realize that it seems impossible for you to do, but that's because he's taught you that you can't leave him. Your family and friends still care about you, even if they are frustrated with your inability to take care of yourself; I strongly suspect that they will try to help you if you turn to them. If they cut you off, it's because they're too distressed by your situation. If you cannot turn to them, seek help from a battered woman's shelter or a crisis line. They can provide counseling and resources and help you find a way to liberate yourself. But you have to do the actual work of leaving, as hard as this is. You have a choice--leave now or stay and be miserable until he maims or kills you. You cannot change this man, and he will not change on his own.

    Be aware that your situation is extremely dangerous. An abusive husband/lover will become the most violent he will ever be at the point that you actually leave him. This is the point when some men actually try to kill their wives, and many succeed. So do not tell him that you are planning to leave him. Make plans with help from a friend or a shelter, wait until he's away at work, and simply leave. Do not tell him where you are going or why you are leaving. Just leave.

    It is not your fault that he's abusing you. You do not deserve anything he's done to you. It's embarrassing to admit that you've allowed yourself to be abused and it's hard to admit that you were wrong about this relationship, but your loved ones will forgive you and you will get over your sense of embarrassment as you get some distance from this man. But for your own sake, please leave him.

    MLML is right--your situation is too large, complex, and dangerous for us to be able to provide you with the emotional assistance you need right now. All we can do is offer you a little emotional support and encouragement. I care how you're doing, and my guess is that others on the forum do as well, but we can't provide the depth of support you need. Feel free to stay and talk with us, but don't make us your only or even major source of support. Please get help and please leave him, no matter how hard it might seem to do that. Please.
     
  12. sweet n nasty

    sweet n nasty New Member

    Oh gosh Sebastian. What a reply. I am so thankful for you explaining things for me. It seems like the others were right. He's not a dom but an abuser after all (i was hoping not), and about me being a masochist, well i guess the reason i got angry at the people at the other forum and the reason i suddenly don't want to go to see my psychiatrist anymore is because deep down i don't think i am a masochist but have been conditioned to make myself enjoy pain and tolerate it in order to stay with my partner who sometimes gets rough. I am trying to teach myself to enjoy pain when in fact sometimes all this just makes me want to cry, scream or just feel like i'm going out of my mind. As you can see, it's so complicated not even i know what i am or what part i play in the whole scheme of things but what i do know is that i am so grateful for the responses i have had here. I am so glad that i have realised just hopw wonderful people can be in helping someone else out. You have helped clarify things for me which is what i came here for. Thankyou so much. Now the hard part is facing the truth.
     
  13. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    SnN, I'm glad that what I said has helped you a little. Both BDSM and domestic violence involve the participants in somewhat paradoxical interactions, so it's no surprise that you've been very confused by what's happening. From the outside, BDSM can look like domestic violence, but from the inside they look nothing alike. Most doms are warm and caring men and women who inspire love and affection from their subs and most subs feel a sense of happiness, security, and satisfaction in the control, training, and pain they accept from their doms. Most abusers, from what I have seen and read, feel anger, frustration, and contempt toward their partners (although some feel love as well), and most victims of abuse feel fear, depression and anxiety from the control and pain their unwillingly receive from their abusers (although often mixed with love and confusion about what is happening).

    Keep in mind that a true masochist is someone who derives sexual pleasure from physical pain. Masochists are generally not confused about what arouses them, are not self-defeating in their relationships, and are not emotional wrecks. Your therapist shouldn't be calling you a masochist because in this case the term isn't being used in its technical sense but in the casual sense. You probably are a masochist in the casual meaning of the term--many victims of abuse are. But from what you've said, you don't seem to be a masochist in the technical fetish sense of the term.

    Again, I can't emphasize too highly my sense that you need to leave this man before he seriously injures you. No matter how much you love him, you will never be able to get him to stop harming you. Whatever demons he's wrestling with go way too deep for you to fix. Your love, no matter how powerful it might be for him, cannot heal him. If you need any more incentive to leave him, ask yourself this: what happens if you get pregnant? Would you raise a child with this man, knowing that he will do to the child what he's doing to you? Because he absolutely will abuse any children you have with him.
     

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