alternative methods to chloroform

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by Mrflibble, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Mrflibble

    Mrflibble New Member

    Hello, this is my first post here, so hello to everyone.

    Basically my girlfriend and I have been discussing our fantasies, and she really wants me to kidnap her and keep her as a slave for a while.
    My problem is, I want to kidnap her, by rendering her unconscious, so that she wakes captured and tied. My question are there any safe and simple ways to achieve this without having to resort to things such as chloroform?

    Thank you in advance for any advice, it is much appreciated.
     
  2. Smallest

    Smallest Moderator

    Having someone unconscious is never really safe, unless they're asleep. Drugs are unreliable, and any blows to the head could mean being comatose for the rest of her life- I don't expect you'd clock hher or anything, but if she fell when you otherwise made her unconscious...

    Take her when she's sleeping. Or let her kick and fight, hm...
     
  3. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    no it's not safe to keep her unconscious
    she can pretend she is :)
     
  4. Soniccat

    Soniccat New Member

    I prefer my girl to pretend, It's safe.
    She is happy when tied up and gagged, but she struggle and moan look so real !
     
  5. Mrflibble

    Mrflibble New Member

    thanks for the advice. Fair enough, i felt there may not be a realistic way to achieve this safely.

    I'm just trying to work out how i can make it as thrilling and as real as possible for her.
     
  6. master jey

    master jey Moderator

    kidnap her while she's not waiting for it also wear a mask (some uniform would be better) and don't talk to her so she won't know it's you tape her mouse and blindfold her take of blindfold when she'll be tied up in your basement
     
  7. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Contrary what Hollywood movies suggest, chloroform is not entirely risk-free. It's a known carcinogen, can cause eye, liver, and kidney damage, and, in cases of an overdose, can be fatal. Jon-Benet Ramsey was killed by chloroform overdose. It can also irritate the skin and cause sores.

    Unless you have medical training, there's probably no easy way to make sure that you have a dosage, and simply pouring some into a handkerchief is asking for trouble. So I'd strongly recommend against using chloroform.

    Unfortunately, there is no good drug that will safely render someone unconscious outside of a controlled medical situation. All the options have side effects or can be dangerous if misdosed or administered improperly. And there's also the question of what happens when the sub actually goes unconscious and suddenly becomes totally limp--a completely limp person is much harder to handle than you think, and there's a risk of injury as the sub drops to the ground.

    The safe thing to do is have the sub fake unconsciousness. Some people into kidnap scenes use a mythical (made-up) drug they call 'rag doll', which can be administered cloth-over-face (like in the movies) or as a spray. The conceit of rag doll is that it renders the target completely unconscious for as long as the dom needs. So in play, the rule is that when the dom sprays the sub or holds a cloth to his/her face, the sub immediately has to fake unconsciousness. This method, while obviously less satisfying that a real knock-out drug, has the benefits that the sub is capable of subtly co-operating (for example, by not going truly limp), can indicate if there is a problem with the bondage being applied (for example, the ropes are cutting off circulation), can become conscious as soon as the scenario calls for ("Oh, no, I'm tied up and helpless! Won't somebody rescue me?"), and can stop the action to explain to any accidental bystanders that everything is ok ("No, officer, he's not really kidnapping me. I'm just playing along.")

    Remember, BDSM is always fantasy on some level. I think it's best to accept that some amount of role-playing and pretend is always going to be involved. Even a hardcore slave isn't truly a slave but only playing at being a slave.
     
  8. Death

    Death Member

    I completely disagree with this part, although generally, I agree it is the case... but not always. I don't really want to compare with this, but one could draw the parallel that if people can be "husband" and "wife", then why not truly Master and slave? Otherwise, though, I completely agree with you. :| It's very unfortunate that this fantasy is so difficult to fully perform...

    Actually, however, there is one drug that is "safe" to use, that can render one completely unconscious, but I really do not want to mention its name... sorry. :/ It's just no good. She won't enjoy it if you'd use that, either... rather, she'd likely get such discomfort that she could end up being mildly traumatized from it, and if that doesn't happen, she'd be so drowzy and dull in her mind, when she'd wake up, that I don't believe she'd enjoy it much. And you can't really control when she'd wake up, then, either. Also, you have to research the proper dosage for some time before knowing how much to use, for that purpose. Some don't need more than half the normal dose, for its actual medical purpose, to get knocked out. Others need five or six times the normal dose. Some scary stuff out there that doctors hand out. :/

    Even if that sounds all fine with you and her, what I'm talking about is a new date rape drug that is widely available. Therefore, revealing its name makes me kind of uncomfortable... and even if only shared with one good person, the knowledge of the shady usages of it could spread to the wrong people. Whenever I speak up about it is when I attempt to see to that people won't use it, for its original purpose, or in regards to the later discovered, additional medical usages of it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
  9. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Death, what I mean is that slavery is a legal status defined by being lacking the power to determine what happen to one. This status is illegal everywhere in the world today. Thus, while a dom/sub couple can seriously work at being master and slave, at its heart, this is play, not reality. No matter how seriously the two work at making their relationship one of total TPE, legally the slave always retains the right to withdraw consent, leave the master's service, or modify the terms of submission. The thing that distinguishes BDSM from abuse is the element of the sub's consent, which means that all power exchange has some element of play and fiction to it.
     
  10. Death

    Death Member

    While I see what you are saying, I still entirely disagree that one can't be a true Master and true slave.

    I'm not seeking to abuse the girl I hope to find in this life, despite that I indeed see whoever she is as my true slave... what I desire is to lovingly "abuse" her, put her in place, whenever needed, humiliate her under love and just generally take care of her, as the little girl she is... all in her wishes, yes, which would make many people argue that it'd just be a "play", as true enslavement always is something dark and bad, but my view on what enslavement can be differs from that of most; what I am seeking is purely beautiful, yet entirely real. Whoever she is, she is my slave in the sense that our souls have been fated since eternity to be together, as one, with me as the dominant, she as the submissive; me as the Master, she as the slave. Since it is fated under true love, it therefore can never end; not when I find her, and not in the eternity, in "death", afterwards. Since it is fated, our roles and our future, together, already have been set, so therefore I truly am her Master, and she truly is my slave, as this already was spelled out since the dawn of our souls; the final fate of our souls... our souls are just waiting to cross paths.

    I know I may sound insane to some but whatever, I couldn't believe in anything more strongly than I believe in this. There is nothing wrong with her status as a slave to me, and her truly being below me... it's just purely romantic. And as for her being below me... it hardly makes her of less value than I am... rather of more value to me, as I, likewise, will be of more value to her. We just complete each other as the different beings that we are.

    Right... it's becoming a slight bit of a ramble, now... but I hope it's easier to see it through my eyes, now.
     
  11. sillylittlepet

    sillylittlepet Active Member

    I think your definition of slavery is a little different than what sebastian is talking about, death

    See a slave in the classical definition would have no choice but to serve you, your slave is someone who willingly relinquishes control because she loves you. So while yes, its clear that what you're imagining is a slave, she's not a slave in the classical sense
     
  12. WrathofThor

    WrathofThor New Member

    If you have all weekend, you could try alcohol one night, "kidnap" her while she's vulnerable, and play the next day when she's recovered. Not shitfaced drunk but a few drinks is a pretty safe sedative.
     
  13. bakerboy

    bakerboy Member

  14. SFbound4fun

    SFbound4fun New Member

    I did a scene with my wife once

    I told her I wouldn't be home until later, and when she came in I was waiting for her... I put on a big boots, jeans, leather jacket/gloves and bandana - not the suit/tie she'd be expecting me to be in. I waited for her behind the door of the bedroom where I knew I'd best be able to get her from behind and doing that also was the safest way to grab her for both of us - also my outfit helped.

    It took her a few seconds to realize it was me ... hehe

    In another play scene I did something similar ... I had my wife sitting in a chair, I crushed up some aspirin, put it into a glass of water and ordered her to drink it. I told her it was a drug that would make her a zombie... obviously you could roleplay whatever you wanted here...

    To answer the original question - I did some reading on Google and legal sedatives like Ambien seem to be the best option. Roofie/ghb/etc seem to have w wide range of dosages (& illegal), and if you're buying drugs that come from Mexico ... do you really know what's in them ???

    Oh and if you try a drug legal or not I'd really recommend the person not taking alcohol... be safe ...
     
  15. jacy

    jacy New Member

    I'm pretty sure the way I got interested in this to begin with is I was dating a dom and didn't know it. I took seroquel for sleep, but not enough to put me all the way out (I took a very small dose to start). Without my consent, he used the situation to 'condition' me (imo, after doing some reading on conditioning) . He did things I would normally not consent to. And I may find out that IRL I still wouldn't like it, but I've been curious to try ever since.

    I had the ability to speak but not move well. I could SAY no, but I could do nothing physically to stop it. I think he got off on my wimpering. But he did the 'loving' gentle talk to me like I've read doms are supposed to.

    I wonder how many people get into this after a date rape or a real rape?
     

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