Advice on a cheating sub...

Discussion in 'General BDSM discussions' started by caroline7, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. caroline7

    caroline7 New Member

    Hi all,

    I am a dominant to my boyfriend and sub of 5 years. That was, until a month a ago, when he told me that for the past 2 years he has had been meeting, texting and talking on the internet to one of our "friends" who has been dominating him.

    I feel destroyed, but there are limited people who can give me advice, so I hoped if I explained some of the complexities on here, someone who knows the BDSM can help me understand him and the situation. Maybe I'll be able to forgive him...

    The history:
    He has difficulty understanding the boundaries between friendship and inappropriately close friendships. There have been 4 girls previously where he has spent a lot of time with them, talking to them and staying at there house, but never any physical contact, just a lot of flirting.

    The story:
    The woman in question is your text book dominant, very obvious, very confident and very often dressed very seductively. She had been on a group friends holiday with us just over two years ago. I was ill in bed the whole weekend. They got closer and eventually kissed on the last night of the holiday. Following the holiday they remained in close contact and the relationship immediately turned to BDSM. There was some sexual contact, no intercourse, but a lot in a domination and control context. Eventually he told me about this very openly and fully, not out of guilt, but out of disgust at himself and the fact our relationship was nearly over from my point of view and i had made that known.

    The explanation:
    I have been home and away a lot due to my degree course, so our relationship has been a lot of long distance. I have tried to maintain the domination but it has not been easy. This was made even harder by him not being fully open with me...
    I was the first girl who dominated him, and the first one not to call him a freak. He is very insecure, especially about BDSM and has developed a habit of trying it on with every girl he gets close to, for an ego boost as part of his insecurity and to see if it is "normal" to like BDSM. He says that the reason he continued with this other woman was because he felt addicted, she was available every night, where i was focusing on Uni work and so he felt she owned him. He says he never wanted to be in a relationship with her and often wanted it all to stop, but due to the nature of domination and submission, he felt he couldnt and every time she told him to do something, it ended up turning him on.

    I have been well aware that our BDSM relationship has slacked, but as much of that was him often saying no, and me losing confidence because of that. He now says that was because he felt ashamed of himself for cheating. He says he believed no one could be a girlfriend as perfect as me, and also be a dominant as perfect as me. He thought that of all the girls he has tried it with, he now believed it wasnt possible to have both in one person. And so he didnt want to give me the chance to be his full Mistress, in case I freaked out and left him, he says he couldnt bare someone he loved to reject his submission.
    Fact is. I wouldnt have rejected him. he is just so deeply insecure he couldnt risk it. I had told him on a few occasions that I wasnt happy, I didnt feel passion from him anymore and I was finding it hard to dominate him when he wasnt reactive to me. I hadnt told him that I wanted to break up with him but that is where i was heading, it wasnt out of not loving him, it was because I didnt feel like he was giving me the full relationship (with BDSM) I wanted. He says he purposely created that distance in order to protect himself, so if I left it would feel like my fault and not because I didnt want to dominate him, which he says he cant deal with.

    He wants our loving relationship to work. He has been having counselling to address his insecurities. He says he has only just realised that his true enjoyment for BDSM comes from the underlying passion and love that he has for me. And any scenarios or dominants that aren't centered on that are not satisfying for him. He loves me and wants me to be his dominant again.
    I love him, I want to dominate him. I believe he wont go elsewhere again now that he has come clean to me about the depth of his problems. I know that we are perfect for each other, on a relationship level and on a domination level. We have had some very open conversations about what we want our relationship to look like and it can work and it can be amazing.
    I just don't know how to forgive, or whether I can forgive. and I know I need to forgive before we can start a new relationship.

    Dominating again:
    Do I ask him what scenarios they have done, and avoide doing those? or do I do exactly what I want, perhaps recreating something she has done and just hope that he doesnt think about the times with her...

    Any thoughts, comments and advice would be so greatly received. Like I said, I need people who understand the BDSM aspect of this situation.


  2. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Caroline: I'm sorry to hear that. BDSM is based on trust, and cheating destroys that trust. There are two problems here: your sub who cheated and your friend who helped him cheat. Taking another dom's sub is extremely unethical, and in my opinion, a dom who does that isn't a real dom (since BDSM is based on honesty, and she's not being honest).

    I could give you an in-depth analysis, but I need to head to work so let me just offer my suggestions.

    1) If you think the relationship is worth saving, then take him back. Give him some very strict limits to follow to demonstrate his sincerity, and make it clear to him that in the short term (however long that is for you), any violation of your rules means that you will dismiss him permanently. Do not negotiate on this point. In general, I believe that BDSM requires compromise, but in this situation, I think comprise will make it impossible for you to be dominant.

    2) If you're not sure the relationship is worth saving, dismiss him and find someone more deserving of you. Hard advice to follow, but I honestly think it's for the best if you're not sure about him.

    3) Speak to the other domme and let her know that you're aware of what happened. Let her know that you consider her actions unethical from a BDSM standpoint (as well as a general relationship standpoint) and tell her that she is not to have any contact with your sub. Inform your sub that he is not to contact her and he is to inform you if she contacts him in any way. Again, this is a no-compromise situation. Your sub accepts this or you dismiss him.

    Good luck.
  3. JettOnly

    JettOnly Member

    I am so sorry to read your story
    As Sebastian said what you do depends on how you feel
    It isn't an easy one to forgive on so many levels but if you feel you can then you have to decide what you want from your relationship and what you need from him to trust him again
    But also you need to see what he needs to do for his counceling

    Remember as well why he has come clean, not guilt, not love, not a desire to make things right
    But because you were so unhappy you were going to leave him

    Personally I can forgive passion getting carried away
    I can't forgive years of lying

    But some people do.

    I also would not put much store on his words, but look at his actions

    He needs to be taking the steps to fix things, clearly cutting all ties with this lady, stopping flirting with other girls and treating you right

    You can't say if this has the makings of a great relationship, you have been living a lie
    If you are to keep him you have to start again, really get to know him and be ready if you don't actually like who he is to walk away
    qbest of luck whatever you decide. I hope you find happiness
  4. TerribleT

    TerribleT Member

    That sux Caroline! I'm sorry :(
    I agree with both of these guys.
    Also, I don't know about your man's story. I don't know if it's because you wrote those words and gave them your spin. Either im a cynical asshole or im reading into your interpretation of what was said and how. If the latter is the case, you don't believe everything he said either.
    I love women and am "overly" friendly at times. With me it's innocent and I really am oblivious to advances that are obvious th everyone else. My wife is done being jealous and thinks it's funny now.
    I would never cheat. Not unless I had given up on my relationship and didn't care about my partner anymore.
    I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I betrayed my best friend and lover.
    like everyone keeps saying in every thread over and over, TRUST is vital and lack there of, is a deal breaker.
    Bottom line is if you cant trust your guy to keep it in his pants, then there really isn't much to talk about.
  5. I second that!
  6. KittyNoir

    KittyNoir New Member

    I second this ^
  7. Don't take this as me suggesting you feel the same way, but I don't believe that there's EVER a reason to hurt your partner to fulfill your sexual desires. If you can't live without something, then you should tell them that and leave instead of hurting them... (But this is based on my morals, thus why it's not advice of any sort.)

    But with BDSM, I think for most people it goes beyond sex. That's where I think it gets tricky with things like this. The reasons someone cheats may reach beyond the realms of just sexual needs into relationship needs.

    I think by sitting down and talking about this, you've gone through the first step. I would make sure he tells you EXACTLY what his needs/wants are and that you tell him yours as well, and make some compromises and plans.

    I think getting trust back after infedelity is a hard thing to do. Relationships in general tend to be so complicated, they are almost unnatural. I as well hope you find happiness.
  8. chaoticist

    chaoticist New Member

    The problem with your advice is you're assuming he will be ethical. But if he was ethical, he wouldn't have cheated for so long. A one-off and then a guilty confession would be one thing, that could be a momentary lapse - but months of nightly cheating with another woman? You are giving advice that would work for a reasonably honourable man, but this guy has shown by his conduct that he is not up to that standard.

    Giving ultimatums to liars doesn't work - this just incentivises them to lie more to avoid being caught out on the new ultimatum. So, he will promise to be faithful, and then next time he meets another hot domme he likes, he will start seeing her and hide it again. Caroline's ultimatum will be ineffective because she will not know that he is cheating, and thus she won't have the information she needs to be able to decide to dismiss him.

    My advice is to dump him and forget about it. One-off cheating can happen sometimes even from normally good people. But serial cheaters don't reform, in my experience. It's not like you had a bad relationship where you were totally ill suited - you seem to have been a good match, and yet he still went elsewhere for nookie. Forget it and move on, then look for someone who is trustworthy.

    The advice for serial cheaters is simple - dump them and forget them, don't talk to them again. Maybe 1 in 1000 reforms eventually, but why be their personal guinea pig in the face of such ludicrously long odds?

    P.S. if you take him back (realistically, I fully expect you to - most people are inveterate suckers for those they had feelings for), then my advice would be this:

    Start by tying him up, do some extreme verbal abuse (based around what a pathetic cheating loser he is), then beat the shit out of him, torture him to an extreme level. First, it will feel great because you're a domme; second, because it will vent your feelings of hurt and revenge; third because he's a sub who found you too 'light' in your dominance, so some hardcore sadism and discipline will probably turn him on like crazy.

    You should then start fucking with his mind by saying you deserve to cheat back to make things even. Start tormenting him with thoughts of you going and finding other guys to fuck while he lies tied up at the foot of the bed. Or demand that he starts wearing a chastity device 27/7, and once he has it on, tell him you won't let him out for a year. You don't actually have to go ahead and cuckold him, or keep him celibate for long, just make him think it is going to happen.

    I bet if you do this, both of you will love it and he'll never look at another domme again. Ha!

    P.P.S. from what I've heard, one of the main 'causes' of male subs cheating is their gf/dommes not being harsh enough with them on the bdsm side, or there not being sufficiently frequent play. Bdsm is similar to normal sex in this regard - if a normal girlfriend didn't fuck her bf for a month, then the risk of him cheating is massively higher. No different if a domme gf doesn't dominate him for a month.

    Yes, in an ideal world your partner would tell you this, and you would then listen and start paying attention to their needs again. Back in the real world, this often doesn't happen, and cheating or other problems arise. So, keep your partner satisfied and most of these issues will be avoided.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2011
  9. Chaoticist, I'm not sure if I agree with your advice.

    From a perspective of someone who knows a little tittle bit about how relationships and cheating work, giving someone a second chance is OK if the partner of the cheater (and the cheater) agree that the relationship can be repaired. I don't think it counts as "serial cheating" if it is with only one person. In my mind, a serial cheater would cheat a lot with many different people. This was more of an extramarital relationship (maybe minus the marriage).

    I would say that this may have arose out of unmet needs. I have read that many people cheat because of unmet needs, not because of passion... But I agree with what you said on P.P.S...

    The real problem I have is with you suggesting that she play on what are probably REAL fears and to "vent your feelings of hurt and revenge" while in a scene and beating him... If he doesn't consent to that, or that crosses a boundary or it does really hurt him emotionally or make him scared of her cheating on him, doesn't it ruin trust and possibly become unconsensual if he is in real suffering that he isn't enjoying??? I'm praying another more knowledgeable member jumps in here, because I could be dead wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's NOT okay unless he really wants it and it doesn't end up ruining his trust.
  10. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Chaoticist: The person who knows best whether or not Caroline's sub is sincere or not is Caroline, which is why I gave her two options, based on what she thinks of the relationship. But you're right that restoring trust in a situation like that will be a challenge.

    I have to strongly disagree with your suggestion that she should tie him up and beat the shit of out him. BDSM should NEVER be done out of anger; when it is, it's abuse, not BDSM. Your suggestion is, in my opinion, a recipe for the complete ruin of the relationship. She is already going to have trouble trusting him, and after a vicious beating he's never going to trust her enough to sub again. Additionally, your suggestion confuses fun play with punishment in a way that will be very confusing for both from that point on: if she tortures him during a play session, is she doing it because she wants him to enjoy it or because she wants him to not enjoy it? Will either of them be able to figure out the answer to that? I doubt it.

    Punishing him as a sub is reasonable. But if they enjoy bondage or pain play as a positive element of their sex life, those should not be used for punishment.
  11. caroline7

    caroline7 New Member

    Thank you

    The advice you have all given me has been of such a help. I am glad I have heard a few very different opinions, I feel it is necessary to look at things from lots of different angles but its hard to do that on your own when you are feeling so broken as a girlfriend but also a Dom. What the future holds I do not know, at the moment we are doing well with the communication and digging deep into ourselves to find what we each want from our own futures. I guess the answer to him staying or going will come with time.

    I have been doing a lot of thinking about my position as a Dom, and your posts have helped dramatically with this. I have discovered a lot about what it means to me and I am now more sure than ever that I can't live without it. I can remember so many times through my relationship with my sub that I wanted to be stricter and do more, but he often held back and was quite unreactive, not very encouraging to a young Dom! But I guess this has been explained by recent truths... I thank chaoticist for your ideas, I hadnt been able to consider how I would begin his retraining and reconditioning, but now I see how important that would be, and how important getting that balance right would be. His previous Dom cannot be ignored, as much as Id like to ignore it, I have to claim back my sub, body and mind.

    My Dom side is telling me that my sub has stepped out of line and needs to be punished, tortured and retrained (non abusive way!) but another side of me has lost confidence and thinks i can never be as good as this other Dom. I have talked that through with my sub and he says that there is no comparison, and he should have truely given himself to me from the start, doesn't help my confidence with him though.
    "Ultimately the sub is in control, they choose to submit" - a piece of advice given to me by another Dom I know. And very true, he chose not to give himself to me as a Dom for fear of losing me as a girlfriend. Now he isn't scared of that, he wants to be owned by me. But whether I take him, I do not know.

  12. chaoticist

    chaoticist New Member

    Well I agree, but that is what safe words, and judgement from the top are there to prevent.
  13. chaoticist

    chaoticist New Member

    IMO if it's consenting and doesn't permanently impair someone, then it's not abuse. I was assuming they have a safe word or some other way for the sub to signal it's going too far and/or he wants to stop - at least that's how I always do things. Just to be clear, I was not suggesting, and don't condone, doing anything against consent.
  14. chaoticist

    chaoticist New Member

    Often subs have conflict or fears about their submissive/masochistic desires, so they hesitate to express them. As a top you have to take a 'leap of faith' and push harder than they say they want, or admit to liking - once you start doing it, you will know very quickly if it's going too far, because they will safe word or otherwise show that they are genuinely disliking it. But most of the time they will accept it and get into it. And important part of any D/s relationship is the first time the sub says 'stop' but doesn't really mean it (i.e. not safe wording, but just giving some token resistance) - if you stop there, you'll never unlock their true submissive side IMO. It's a kind of challenge in a way, they want to know if you will ignore their token resistance and push harder, it's a way of proving you are capable of genuinely dominating them.

    Control and dominance isn't given, it's taken. The 'control' of the sub is ONLY in their ability to deny consent if the 'taking' goes too far - in every other respect the top is in control, and has to be for things to work well IMO. If you wait for them to ask or give permission before doing something, then you are reducing yourself to nothing more than an agent of the submissive's explicitly stated desires - that's not being dominant, that's being a hired agent for the sub's sexual pleasure and whims.

    So, if riding roughshod over consent is going too far, and waiting for requests or permission before dominating is not going far enough, there is a middle ground where you are in charge but still respecting your sub's ultimate wishes. You need to have the inner confidence (which grows with experience and understanding) to take the plunge, don't be scared to push him. There's nothing to regret about this, it's just a matter of experience, mutual understanding, trust, and self-confidence in your nature and abilities as a dominant. And the sub can't trust you and give themselves over to you 100%, if you don't trust yourself.

    It sounds like you have the desires there:

    'I have discovered a lot about what it means to me and I am now more sure than ever that I can't live without it.'

    'I wanted to be stricter and do more'

    ...that's pretty much how a genuine dom or domme would think. So, instead of being afraid of your feelings or repressing them, let them out and dominate him exactly as you want to - and make the only limit the one of his consent. I.e. if he isn't using his safe word, and its within the limits of sanity (i.e. not permanent harm or damage) then keep going as far as you want. IMO both you and him will enjoy it more if you push further and only stop once he *needs* you to stop. Not only will you probably enjoy it more, but it should recapture your dominant authority and make him realise what he would be missing if he fucks it up again!
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  15. sebastian

    sebastian Active Member

    Recovering that lost sense of dominance over a partner is very tricky. I think it can be done, but it will take work, communication, and a willingness on the part of your sub to consciously be compliant and communicative. Good luck.

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