A question of Dominant ethics

sebastian · Jan 21, 2010

I was talking with my sub, Alex, last night, and he told me a story that really upset me. A couple years ago, long before I met him, Alex had another master (funny, didn't think to ask the master's name) who was really into pup play. He trained Alex pretty hardcore--leaving him in a cage for hours, making him wear a tail and a chastity device even when he wasn't around, that sort of thing. Alex really got into it, learned to become very submissive and responsive to his master's desires, and found himself longing to be a dog when he was at work. Alex hadn't recognized his submissive self before he met this guy, but came out craving extreme submission and humiliation.

But here's the thing. The master seems to have simply wanted Alex to get down into 'pupspace' (for lack of a better term) and just stay there. He would cage Alex, occasionally fuck him, put the tail back in, and then leave him. He doesn't seem to have given Alex any sort of aftercare (when I met him, Alex didn't know the term--I think now he didn't recognize the concept) to help Alex come back up from pupspace. The master eventually moved away and made no effort to help Alex get closure on the whole experience. When his master left, Alex spent a long time playing as a dog on his own. He'd come home from work, get undressed, put his tail in, and spent the rest of the night as a dog (sleeping on the floor, drinking from the toilet, and so on). Eventually the tail broke and that sort of helped Alex climb back out of pupspace. Now, Alex loves the idea of pup play but admits that he's scared of getting lost in pupspace again.

I'm a pretty new dom, but this story makes me incredibly angry at this master. It seems to me that in pup play, a master has an obligation to end the scene in a way that brings the pup back up to humanity. The fact that the master wasn't providing any type of aftercare that I can recognize seems really irresponsible, and the way the master simply walked away (at least as far as I can tell--he doesn't seem to have made any attempt to help Alex find another master or whatever) seems wrong. This guy seems to have crossed over the line from domination into emotional abuse through a disregard for Alex's needs as a human.

So what do people think? 1) Am I right in my assessment of this master? Did he treat Alex unethically? Or was he just playing more extremely than I would? 2) Should puppy play aftercare include things to bring the sub out of pupspace, and if so, what?

Obedient Little Puppy · Jan 21, 2010

Hmm...this is a weird one for me.

Yes, I agree that the other master treated Alex badly

Some kind of signal should always be established beforehand, to avoid confusion during play if nothing else.

My master and I don't do puppy play as much as we used to, and have only been doing it for a year, but in some aspects I find it difficult to get into pupspace, never mind out of it. In the beginning, I found it difficult to do pretty much everything because I couldn't do even the simplest puppy task without collapsing in fits of hysterical laughter, and also I was still talking.

I have become so much better now, immersing myself deeper into my role, but I'm still having difficulty with barking. I just can't get this noise to work, and it is really frustrating, but I'm hoping that, in time, it will come, and in the meantime resort simply to growling, howling, whining and panting where noises are concerned.

As for how to end the game, what usually happens with us is that my master will command me to jump up into his lap, and cwtch (cuddle) up, and we just kind of lie there silently for some time, until, eventually, one of us will speak, and the spell will be broken, making me 'human' again. No prearranged signal, but we both just 'know', if that makes any sense.

Sometimes we do pussy play, where my master dresses up as a cat for me. We were confused as to the best way to end a session of pussy play, because we didn't know if the method we use for puppy play would work just as well, so for this, we do have a prearranged signal. When he has had enough, he will go to the living room door, and I will let him out and shut the door, as with letting a cat out for the night. When he returns, a few minutes later, he is 'himself' again.

I hope this will be of some help to you

sebastian · Jan 21, 2010

It is, OLP. I've only done puppy play once, and not with Alex, so your example is helpful. I had intended to introduce puppy play fairly soon with Alex, but after hearing this story I think I need to wait a while and have a stronger idea of how to structure it, to make sure it's a positive experience for him. It sounds to me like his master got off on making Alex a neglected and heavily disciplined pup, and I want him to be a happy, playful pup. And I appreciate your confirmation that it's not just me who thinks this master was irresponsible.

Obedient Little Puppy · Jan 21, 2010

No problem, I'm glad I could help

I mean, as with a real puppy, you have to punish bad behaviour, but at the same time, you have to make sure to make the difference between punishment and abuse perfectly clear. When I misbehave as a puppy, my master will give me a little smack on the nose or a whack on the arse with a rolled up newspaper, and once threaded the end of my lead through the rails of the bed, and told me I had to stay there to think about what I'd done wrong (biting him, if I remember rightly). But I was only there for about 5 or 10 minutes, and then I was brought back into the living room, and fussed over

If you and Alex want to do this, the best thing you can do is have a good, lengthy discussion about what is expected from each of you. Show him he is worshipped as a puppy with belly tickles or something, lots and lots of affection, to make sure he feels loved in his animal role.

I'm not sure what else I can say, but I hope that this will be a good place to start

Good luck, and let us know how you get on

master jey · Jan 21, 2010

poor alex....damn it

sebastian · Jan 21, 2010

Thanks for agreeing MJ. Helps me feel better about my instincts on this.
OLP: more good advice, and in line with what I had planned. The one time I did puppy play, I had a blast lavishing praise on my pup and petting him. Part of what upsets me about what this guy did to Alex is that it seems to have taught Alex that d/s is about very hardcore humiliation. He keeps saying that he wants me to use him and then ignore him, without regard to his feelings. He doesn't want to be treasured. But at the same time he seems to understand that this guy did a number on him, although he can't say it directly. Last night he said "I don't know whether it was good or bad, but he reprogrammed me almost completely."

But before people get the wrong picture, Alex is a functioning guy, not an emotional wreck. He's a high-powered business lawyer, a pretty dedicated bodybuilder, and a very confident and aggressive guy socially. He's not completely submissive (we just had a small quarrel last night when he ignored a protocol). He's just got some very dark stuff in his head attached to being submissive.

Obedient Little Puppy · Jan 21, 2010

It's fucking horrile, the way this other guy has treated him

As long as you make sure to communicate fully with him, and take it slowly, with any luck he should gain the confidence he needs to do this successfully.

He needs to discover himself as a puppy, if that makes any sense. Just as every human has their own personality and unique quirks that make them special, so does every animal. I'm not sure if my master would agree with this, but I personally feel that I adopt a slightly more different personality as a puppy, more cheeky, I think, and yet more aggressive. Sometimes, as a puppy, I get stroppy, and I expect to get punished for it. And sometimes I am cheeky, refusing to do as I'm told, running away and hiding just to be clever. Plus, I am also very affectionate, and when I am obedient, and gentle, I get rewarded, and get lots of kisses and fusses

InnocentFacade · Jan 21, 2010

I fully agree with you Sebastian, and I also wanted to throw in that I really admire the thought you've put into making sure your submissive is taken care of emotionally. In my search to find a Dom, I've come across many many many men who are just abusers using BDSM as an "acceptable" outlet. It's Dominants like that who fuel the "abuser/abused" stereotype D/s relationships have-as was mentioned in another thread (I believe by Sparrow?) bad things travel and are talked about MUCH more quickly than good things. It's a shame that poor Alex had to go through this, and it sounds like it changed him. However, there is a silver lining- your journey together will likely bring you much closer

Well done, Sebastian, and best of luck to you and your boy!

sebastian · Jan 22, 2010

Thanks IF. I hope so too. I'm a little worried right now, actually. He's shown a few signs of pulling away from me. I haven't been able to get him to open up about whatever's going on yet. I think maybe he's confused because I'm not abusing him the way he's come to expect. The challenge is that if I don't treat him the way he's used to, he'll feel like I'm not the dom he wants. But if I do treat him that way, I can't get him to work through this issue.

InnocentFacade · Jan 22, 2010

I'm afraid my own experiences don't lend anything to your tribulations right now. I can only wish you the best and support you from here . . . which drives me crazy b/c I'm a "fixer". I try to fix anything and everything, and it's inhibiting most of the time.

A question of Dominant ethics

sebastian

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